It also is like that at work as well, just as it is in society and in life. But what happens is, if you truly hold yourself back, you don't give people an opportunity to see why, like why you're invited to be there at the table. Hello, and welcome to the Pibytes podcast, where we talk about Python career and mindset. We're your hosts. I'm Julian Sequeira. And I am Bob Baldebos. If you're looking to improve your python, your career, and learn the mindset for success, this is the podcast for you. Let's get started. Welcome back to another Pie Bytes podcast episode. This is Julian, and I'm not actually here with Bob this week, which is very sad but also very good because it means I'm going to have a great conversation. I'm kidding, Bob. So I'm actually here today with a very, very good friend of mine, Hannah Cook, who's come to talk to us about a very special topic. But before I, we jump into that. Hannah, welcome to the podcast. Jules, thanks so much for having me. I love how you emphasize my last name. There was a lot of emphasis and power there, so thank you so much for saying that was such gusto. I'm really excited to be here. No, you're welcome. I know it's a touchy point. No, I'm kidding. So before we jump in, do you want to just tell everyone who you are and what you do day to day, and then we'll jump into the topic? Sure. So I work for AWS. I am a communications manager. I mainly do internal communications. I've done a variety of communications, both external and internal. By external, it's more marketing, public relations. Internal is more of how do we bolster employee engagement and the employee experience through communications campaigns. So it's fun. I've been in this role for about. About eight ish months, and every day there's something new, and I've really been enjoying my time, so that's what I do for work. And, Jules, I'm so glad I got to meet you through this role, because here we are. Yeah, I know. This. This was my intent all along. Everything else was a lie. So thank you for being on the podcast. I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised that that was your. Your goal, because I figured you out by now, and, uh, you're a sneaky guy. Yeah, it's all a scam. So just for pie bites. Of course. So thanks. Thanks again for jumping in and agreeing to chat with me today. So for everyone listening, Hannah and I have many conversations throughout the week, and one of the things we've discovered is we just like to talk about a lot of these mindset style topics. And Hannah had some really wonderful perspectives that I wanted to. I thought this would be great for you to share on the podcast. So here you are, Hannah. So do you want to share with everyone listening what is it that we're going to talk about today? So this was actually. Yeah. Happy to share and bring this out to your listeners. I think we've. In many of the conversations we've had, I think a lot of things, and the reason why you and I became such fast friends is because I think we're both really, one of our values, I think, is how can we show up authentically and not, I mean, in life, right. But also, especially at work, because that's where we spend a majority of our time. And how do we show up authentically so that we are building really strong partnerships across the company, but also with the teams that we work with day to day and how we show up with leaders. Right. Like, sometimes I think there's many times where we think we need to have a certain facade or we need to show a certain side of ourselves when truly, at the end of the day, there's so much power to being who you are. And, Jules, I know you've shared with me some of the experiences you've had, where you've showed up authentically in front of a leader, and it was just really rewarding when they heard you and they validated you and they recognized you for being you. So I really, really excited to talk about this, because you and I could talk about this forever. So I'm really excited to talk about how you can truly be authentic and really bring yourself, your whole self to work and be proud about it and be courageous about it. I love that overview. Yeah, you're exactly right that this whole concept of being your authentic self at work is so important, and it's something that a lot of people feel that they can't do. And it could be for a number of reasons. It could be a cultural thing within the company. It could be fear. It could be just not feeling comfortable doing it. That it's. Why would I. Why would I do that? This is my job. But the reality is, the benefits far outweigh any of the negatives here. And, you know, as you say, for me, I kind of can't help but just be my authentic self, for better or worse. And there's definitely been a bit of worse in there from time to time. But that's just. That's just how it goes. You know, you got to take it for what it is. So on that note, you know, if you were to say that, you know, if someone was to ask you what are the benefits of doing this, what would you say to that? I would say one of the things that people, if you can courageously show up and really just muster that up, that confidence to really step into the ring, I think what people will see is that you have unique abilities and superpowers that no one else in your team or your colleagues or your competitors may have, because that's just inherently who you are. And I like how you mentioned culture, because I grew up in a culture where we were always supposed to be agreeable. I'm an asian woman, and that's just how people expect us to show up. And it also is like that at work as well, just as it is in society and in life. But what happens is, if you truly hold yourself back, you don't give people an opportunity to see why. Like, why you're invited to be there at the table. So if you're invited to be at the table, take that seat. Seat and stand out, because that's why you're there. And don't focus on your shortcomings, because there's no. We all have them. But I would say there's so much more that can be done when you double down on your strengths. There's so much more that you can offer and contribute when you double down on your superpowers. On your unique superpowers. I love the way you put that. The especially bringing, you know, why you're at the table. Why do you have a seat at the table? We, Bob and I. I don't even know if you know this, but, you know, one of the things we often say is that one of our values is to lift people up. You know, we love to help people give them a voice where they don't always. May not always have it. Give them the confidence to. To speak up for themselves. And also, as in the words that you use, bring them to the table. And that, to me, is super important. And when you do get to the table, as you're saying, being yourself is super valuable because there are going to be other people at that table. And as you say, you know, focus on the things that make you unique. Some of it might just be your sense of humor. You know, in my case, that's definitely something I pride myself on. Whether you all agree with me or not, that includes you. Yeah. See that I was choked on my own spit as I. So he said that. So, you know, and that's. That's one thing that I always bring to the table because it doesn't matter what you're talking about. Doesn't matter what meeting you're in, doesn't matter what planning session it happens to be or who the stakeholders in the room are. There is nothing wrong with bringing a bit of fun to a meeting we're talking about come out as a clown and, you know, spray balloons and stuff at everyone but, and confetti. But, you know, you can have a joke that's completely fine. It's not a problem. So, you know, having the confidence, so knowing one, that that's your unique superpower, for example, but then also having the confidence to embrace it and say, yeah, I'm. I'm confident in myself, and I'm going to be myself, and you, well, tough luck. Yeah. So I really like that. And it also, when you do that, as you said, it takes the focus away from your shortcomings. It gives you, you're not nervous about those things. You're not worried about the things that you feel are your gaps. You're then focused on only those. Those things that you feel are your strengths. So I really like that. And finally, just to. Based on what you were saying, one of the benefits I find with all of this is that it earns trust with the people that you work with and the people that you're talking with that you are trying to connect with. So this isn't just the workplace, as you said. Right? This is everywhere. But when you do that, it just earns this trust. And people want to spend time with you. They want to work with you. They know that you're trustworthy and that they can come to you with things. And it's just, it works out well all around. Totally. That's. I want to definitely also say that, Jules, in working with you, I think you mentioned this earlier about how you and Bob take this really seriously, but it's really about giving others that, inspiring others and motivating others to show up that way as well. So when you do that, when you show up that way, it's an effect, right? It's a rippling effect, a ripple effect where others are able to show up, too. And I truly can say that, that you've definitely done that for me. So think about all the others in the room who would like to speak up but can't. But just by you speaking up and you showing up and you being who you are your funny self. Others will be able to do that, too. So definitely want to call that out that you. You have that influence. You've done that for me, and others can do. Totally do that, too. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. No, it's. It's true. It's like the. The whole, um, concept of breaking the ice and speaking up in a meeting, right. When the first person speaks up in a meeting, it really makes it easier for other people to then speak up and have the next comment. So when the room's silent and nothing's happening yet, no one's going to speak up. Right. It takes that one person to. But once one person does it, suddenly it's open the floodgates and everyone jumps in. Right. Right. All right. So one thing we are on this podcast, other than awesome, is we're very tactical, and we like to have tips and things people can do now. So for everyone listening, who's thinking, okay, that's great. Here are the benefits of being your authentic self. But what are some things that people can do right now when they go to work or wherever it is they go every day, tomorrow, when they step out of the car and get there, you know, what's something they can do? Yeah. So I would say, number one, you got to start with yourself before you go out there. You got to look in the mirror, and you got to self assess. I think having self awareness about your strengths, like you, you got to treat. You got to know yourself first. If you don't know what kind of strengths that you have that make you uniquely you, then it's going to be really hard to show up authentically because you're presenting. Presenting a not so sure image of yourself. So you first have to look in the mirror, ask yourself, what are the strengths that people say I have, but what are the strengths I know I have? So start with that inner voice. Second, I would ask others that you trust to vet it, right. So it's totally okay if they say something that you don't agree with, but the reason why you're reaching out to this trusted circle is exactly for that reason. They could say, Hannah, actually, you think that you're really, really good at editing videos, but I think your superpower is getting people to tell their stories. So it's really critical that you ask people that know you, that mentors, even friends, trusted individuals in your life that can give you their thoughts on your superpowers. And trust me, that will be one big confidence boost if you're looking for that and it feels good they validate you. Third, this is the most important part. This is where you put it into application. Really muster up that courage to show up and speak up and to be who you really are. And what I would like to remind your listeners is you got this. You are the expert. You know what you're doing. Don't shy down. Don't back down. You can do it. And then the last one, it's not going to be perfect. It's not going to be all rosy. So be ready for discomfort, and that is completely okay. It's not going to feel amazing the first time, and that's totally fine. It shouldn't feel amazing, because if it did, it means that you're already an expert at it. But it's kind of like exercising right and lifting weights in the beginning, it hurts, it's not comfortable. Tomorrow you're going to be sore. But guess what? You keep going back. You keep doing the work, and you get stronger and stronger. And it's totally okay to put yourself out there and be vulnerable when you're being authentic, because being vulnerable and being who you are, it takes so much courage. So at the end of the day, know that when you're showing up and you're choosing to show up as who you are, you are being more courageous than the people who choose not to show up that way and display a false side of themselves. So I would say those are the tips that I would have. I would. I would recommend. But really, most importantly, I would like to remind you all, like, you have this in the bag. You got this. You can totally do it. You are uniquely you. I love this. This is so good, you speaking my language here. Hannah. There are a couple of things I just want to, like, reiterate that I just loved what you said to, especially that line, you know, show up and speak up. You know, it's having that confidence to it. And that's probably the hardest part, I think, out of all of this, you know, is, is just in those situations, being able to say, all right, I know what my strengths are. People have told me they've, you know, affirmed this, confirm this. Sorry, now I got to do it. And it's. It's like, you know, you're lifting weights and all that stuff, you know, exercising, but then you might have a competition and you're putting your money where your mouth is there. And that's the hardest part. But as you're saying, right, you've got this. It's, it's, it is difficult, but it's actually so rewarding. And to that point as well, this is something we, we constantly say here on the podcast as well. Discomfort is a sign of growth, you know, 100%. It's something that shows that you are pushing yourself. If you, I think a quote I heard, I think was from Levar Burton, right. If you. Fear is just excitement that is waiting to come out and oh, I love that. Yeah, it was really cool. And what really stands out for me is that I use that as a motivator to tackle new things. So next week, you know, I'm delivering some training to 300 plus people. That's going to be kind of new for me. And that's scary as. But what's even scarier is the next day I'm hosting trivia for another 300 people. There's no slides to talk of. There's nothing like that. It's literally about me being, me, putting my personality on it and trying to make this hour long trivia session fun. And so that to me is going to be scary. But I've, I've just got to show up. I've got to speak up. I've got to have that get out of my comfort zone and just do it because I almost said no. But then I thought about this podcast and I'm kind of a coach. Would I be if I backed away from a challenge like that? So not going to happen. But all of this is, these are amazing tips. So I'll recap and then there's one thing I want to cover off there as well. But, so start with you. Self assessment. Reach out to others to get their thoughts, have the courage to show up and speak up. So just get in there and do it and then be ready for the discomfort. Push through the pain, right. Push through the discomfort and do it again and again and again and it'll just become second nature. I love the flow of your approach there, Hannah. You're a professional, it seems. Oh, no, I am not. I am always in a mode of, like you said, I'm always a little uncomfortable, but I take that as a sign of growth. But I am far from perfect. Every day I need to show, I need to be conscious and showing up as who I am. This is why this topic is so near and dear to my heart, because it's a homework assignment that I have not completed as of yet. That's cool. Constant growth. That's, I like that. It's a homework, it's assignment you haven't completed yet. You know, one thing I did want to call out as well, this, this second tip. You had, which was, you know, reach out to others that you trust. Um, you're one of those people for me, you know, when. Because. Especially because you were quite new at the company, right. You didn't know me for five years. Plus you had no history with me. So being. Getting your perspective was, was key for me because it was in a newish role that even I was not accustomed to doing work that I wasn't used to be doing, wasn't used to doing. It was largely non technical. So getting your feedback and thoughts on, you know, what. What am I doing? Well, what do I bring to the table? What's the unique piece of my communication style that actually helps you and, yeah, I think it's just been awesome. So tip for everyone out there is find someone, could be the new person at work, it could be a friend, it could be family, could be your accountability partner for coding, which you should have. Yeah, those are really. That's a really good, that's a really good reminder, Jules, because the piece about the. Especially the part about the new person, because they don't know you and they could totally provide a fresh perspective that you were looking for. That could really be that oomph, you know, that. That you were looking for to really round out that profile of who you are so that you know how unique you are. Yeah, totally. All right, so you know what? I'm going to put you on the spot here. Can you think of any situations where you've consciously had to do this and remember some of the discomfort and so on? This, I would say even just showing up in front of leaders, I think, is something for me that I've always felt like I couldn't really be who my authentic self. And I say this because. And we talked about this earlier. You touched upon it. The piece about culture. Culture, for me, tells me there's a hierarchy. And depending on who you're presenting to in that hierarchy, there's a certain side of you that you need to show and display. And most of the time that that side that you're showing to these leaders that are high up, it's a very colorless side of a person. And the risk there is they see a very professional side of you. And I'm just going to speak in first person here. They see a very professional side of me and they're like, great. She knows what she's doing. She's a good speaker. But what they lose out on is. What I lose out on is I don't have much time with these leaders sometimes. That one meeting, I have is my opportunity to show them my unique strengths and what I bring to the table. So I would say when I first started in this role at Amazon, at AWS, I had an opportunity to speak up. And honestly, I was sweating. People couldn't see it, but I was sweating. My palms were sweaty, but I was like, I know this topic. I know how to use slack to engage teams. Like, that's all I use in my prior role. So I decided to speak up. And don't get me wrong, I was shaking. I. After that call, I was like, oh, my lord, my palms are so sweaty. But I was so proud of speaking up because that was a topic that I knew I was passionate about. Slack. That is uniquely me. And later, my teammates told me, yeah, we don't really use slack much here. So the fact that you spoke up about, spoke up about that is awesome because you are the subject matter expert on that. So I filled a gap that my team, that was missing my team, I spoke up. And at the end of the day, I feel like the leaders probably remember me for speaking up. But even if they didn't, I don't care because I felt good. Yes, sweaty palms and everything, but I felt really good about myself because I chose to take a leap. And I know for a lot of people, that's, like, it's not that big of a deal, but for me, it is. It was a huge deal because I've only been at the company for, like, I don't know, a month or two. So for me, it was a really big deal and a big move towards growth. And, yes, it was. It was uncomfortable, but I am so glad I did it. That's awesome. Actually, you know, I think I remember that meeting, or at least the document on it. Yes, we're there. Yeah, I was there. But the. The cool thing about that is that my key takeaway from what you just said was that it's what matters to you. So a little leap, like, it might seem something small, perhaps insignificant to most people, but if it's a leap for you, then that's all that counts. If it's something that pushed you out of your comfort zone, that made you sweat, that made you almost fearful in advance, but you pushed through and did it because you stuck to your guns, and that's just who you are, then that's a huge win, you know, and I think you got to celebrate that. So, yeah, that. That's amazing. And I think I even remember saying to you, like, wow, that was really cool. You know, that you. That you did that. And that you pushed. I remember. Yep. You. You were one of my biggest cheerleaders that day. Not anymore. Not anymore. Not anymore. Yeah. We know too much about each other. Yeah, true, true. But, um, you know, on that. That note, I'll share a quick anecdote from my end. So. So I just. One thing that comes across in many, many companies is the. And I'll just be pretty blunt here. This is our podcast. I don't care. Is the kiss ass nature of many people when it comes to leaders, right? I'll always speak my mind on our podcast. There are so many people who follow leaders around like a tail, like they're the shadow. Right? And there is a point where you have to realize that that's not doing you any. Any good. Right. And for me, that's not authentic at all. That's like career chasing. That's, you know, whatever you want to call it. And for me, I do remember years and years ago, and I'll be very vague here on intentionally, but there was a leader who came, came out, came to visit, and the majority of people that he was engaging with were literally doing that. They would. They were just physically following him room to room. It's like he had an entourage everywhere he went. And I just remember looking at that, going, that poor bloke, he's traveled all the way from overseas, and he can't catch a break. He can't even step outside to catch his own breath, you know? And one thing I remember, the thing that I did that I was super proud of was that I didn't follow him around. And so when I did get time with him, I even called it out and said, look, you won't see me following you around. I'm here for a reason. I'll tell you what you need to hear. And then I'm gone. And then, you know, as well, I said, but, hey, happy to have a chat as well. And. And I actually had a conversation with him on a personal note. We talked about family. We talked about travel. We talked about Australia. We talked about a whole bunch of things. It was super casual, super relaxed, and it was one of the most casual conversations he had on the entire trip, to the point where, you know, I ended up having dinner with him, a couple of beers, that sort of thing like that. And that built such memorable rapport that he's always remembered me, you know? And by the way, this wasn't even at AWS. This was a previous company. But I just remember that sticking with me and to the point where when I went over to the US. He met up with me in, I think it was Colorado maybe. But anyway, he met up with me and took me out for drinks and out on a hike and all things like that. Right. And it was just purely because I was one of those people who made an effort on a personal level and just said professional stuff. Here you go. I'm out. I'm not going to sit here and follow you around. You do your own thing. So, yeah, it just, and that's just who I am. I just don't have time for that sort of thing. So showing up as myself, being personal, acknowledging work is work and then there are people underneath the work level works out well for me. And that's something that took a lot of growth and I guess strength to push through because it's very easy to be intimidated by people in these senior positions. So there you go. You know, Jules, as you said that, as I was listening, what I, what I can, what I definitely can attest to knowing you is that that is uniquely who you are. You, that is authentic, that is the authentic side of you that I've, I've grown to, to really admire in you as a colleague and as a friend, because that's you. I know that for me that's something I care about. But turning it into action, I mean, that's just something that I need to grow into. But I know knowing you that that is authentically who you are, where you like to connect to every, anybody and everybody on, on that personal level to really understand what, what's exciting, what excites them about, about work, about life. So as you were talking and as you were saying that, I was like, oh, goodness, that is jewels to a t. No thanks, Hannah. I appreciate it. And look, for everyone listening, this isn't just all rainbows and butterflies. Right? This is, it can, it can be difficult. And if im just going to say something really quickly, Ive had my fair share of burns from this. Ive had my fair share of moments where someone said, hey, you should be a little more serious in meetings. Ive had people call me out in a meeting privately saying, hey, can we just keep this a little more professional and stuff like that? And whether I agree or not, the reality is I dont want to give an impression that ruins my reputation. Right. And so, yeah, it can be, it can be tough, but you got to push through it. And if I gave up every time I got one of those, then I wouldn't be where I am today. So there you go. Now look, as Hannah, we're running out of time, so I'm going to jump straight into the you stuff. What are you reading at the moment? This is something we ask everyone at the end of the podcast. Leaders who, readers, is something we like to say. And being one of the best leaders I know, I don't know about that, but I'll take it. What are you reading? If anything? I am reading. I'm so glad this is such good timing, because I generally don't read a lot of leadership books. I'm always reading books that are more like fiction or books about nonfiction that are more about sociology and economics. But right now I'm reading a book suggested to me by a really good friend at work. It's called a memo, and it's written by a woman who. And actually, the reason why I love this book is because I think the sub line in this book is called. Give me a second. It's called what Women of Color need to know to secure a seat at the table. And it's by Minda Hartz. And I've been listening to it. It's an audiobook and it's also a written book, but I love it and I recommend anybody and everybody to read it. You don't have to be a woman of color to, to read it or listen to it. It's just. It's so good. That's awesome. I'm gonna. I've got. I just found the website now, as you were talking, I clearly wasn't listening to you. I was busy looking for it. No, I'm kidding. Now that actually sounds amazing and definitely something I want to read. And I'm going to look at where I can purchase that in Australia because that was an american website. So. No, that's amazing. Thank you for sharing that. And by the way, I will say there is absolutely nothing wrong with fiction. I love fiction more than nonfiction. It's just that I happen to read a lot of, you know, these, these mindset, productivity type books, or listen to them because I find them quite dry to read. But my bookshelf is filled with fiction. So there you go. I love fiction. But this is one of those times you caught me at the right time where I can sound really cool and like super, super important and be like, yeah, look at me. I'm ready to be a leader. I'm ready for that series at that table. But yes, I love fiction, too. That's why we're friends. Look at this power player. I don't read Harry Potter. I read Tim Ferriss. Nice. All right. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much, Hannah, for your time and for joining me. This has been a long time coming. I think we've spoken about this for a couple of months. So if people want to find out more about you, and I imagine everyone will, where can. Where can they find you? Do you exist on the Internet? So, yes, I do. You can find me on LinkedIn. My first name is Hannah. Hannah. And my last name is Kook, and it's pronounced cook. And you can also find me on Twitter. I'm not really active, but you can still find me on Twitter. I do use Twitter sometimes, and if you just type in my name, you'll be able to find me on Twitter. So, yeah, find me. Message me if you have any questions. I'm here. So really, really glad to be here and get to speak to everybody. And thanks for inviting me, Jules. No, my pleasure. And I'll have all the links for those, too, so people don't have to search for you. I'll have that in the show notes, but thank you so much again. And just so everyone knows, Hannah's one of the few people that's allowed to call me Jules. No, I'm kidding. Everyone can call me Jules. You can call me whatever you want. But thank you. Yeah, thank you again, Hannah. It's been an absolute pleasure, everyone. Thank you so much for tuning in, as always, I appreciate you and your time. Bob will be joining me back next week maybe, or maybe the week after that. I don't know. We've recorded so many episodes this week, I don't know what order we're going to post it in, but you'll hear from the two of us soon. One of us, I'm sure, will be back on a soapbox talking about something. So thank you again, and take care, and we'll chat next time. We hope you enjoyed this episode. To hear more from us, go to Pibyte friends, that is Pibit es friends, and receive a free gift just for being a friend of the show and to join our thriving slack community of Python programmers, go to Pibytes community. That's Pibit es forward slash community. We hope to see you there and catch you in the next episode.