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The second you start working over those hours, you are devaluing your hourly wage. And that goes hand in hand a lot of the time with that pursuit of cash. Hello, and welcome to the PI Bytes podcast, where we talk about Python career and mindset, where your hosts. I'm Julian Sequeira. And I am Bob Baldebos. If you're looking to improve your python, your career, and learn the mindset for success, this is the podcast for you. Let's get started. Welcome back to another Pie Bytes podcast. This is Julian, and I'm very excited tonight because after a week off, Bob is back. How's it going, man? Who is this man? I didn't recognize him anymore other than his voice. Hi, everybody. So weird. We spent a week apart, which is always difficult, but we recorded. How long do you think the audio messages added up to? Maybe 2 hours. Yeah, they went through a nice podcast length, an entire season worth of audio messages back and forth. But it's weird. We're on camera right now and it's we to see this man sort of face to face. So welcome back. I'm happy you're back. It's feeling much more energetic now. Me too. All I have to say, as you alluded to with WhatsApp length, it was a good think week, like Bill Gates is always doing, right? Like think week. We had a lot, although it was on break, we did have some really good ideas about the work on and stuff. Yeah. And just, just for everyone listening, what was your favorite part of the holiday? Where did you go? I went back to the Netherlands after two and a half years due to COVID and stuff. Right. So now that's kind of finally possible or responsible to do so visit the family and stuff after way too long. So it's good. Nice. What did you enjoy the most? Well, seeing my parents, obviously, but it was also very quiet nice. So no, no kids. No explicit is better than implicit. There are no kids around. I miss them. I missed them, definitely. But, yeah, just a very different lifestyle. No, that's cool. I'm glad you got that time away, man. Very, very nice. And it was cool seeing the pictures of you and your parents and stuff, you know, must have been nice. So I'm happy you got that time and. And you come back feeling recharged, you're ready to go. Oh, totally. Yeah. So that's what we always say, right? Like, take the weekends or that book that you voted the other day. Create space. And. And this is an example that sometimes the space needs to be a bit more ample and it's super beneficial. It was weird, you know, even though I was, I was here doing the usual stuff, it still felt like space as well because we weren't in like a deep grind of some tool. Right. Or building something or working on some project and, and heads down into a, into something. So it was, even for me, it was a little bit of a break. So, uh, yeah, I enjoyed it and. But I'm. Even though you have that break, you come back at the end of it, you're antsy to get back into the work, into the fun. Right. Addiction. Yeah, total addiction. It is a bit like that. Um, all right, so we'll kick it off with, with some wins. So tell, tell me, what's, what's your win that you want to share this week? Yeah, apart from taking a break, which is a win in itself, a technical win. So before I left, we sent that email out about the new content calendar. And so it's a tool for us to produce content and approve it. And when you get into content pieces that go through different stages of draft in review, approved, rejected and posted, all of a sudden, hey, that's actually a state machine. So I looked at the packages, I came across python transitions, and yeah, I refactored a very nested Django view into offloading the whole state managers into a state machine. And, yeah, so the Django view is way leaner and the logic now sits where it should be. Was just very cool to just implement that and get it working. Of course, I got stuck up a bunch of times, implemented unit tests before even making the changes and became cleaner. Caught a few bugs and it was a nice, deliberate practice exercise. And yes, that's something I'm definitely going to write an article about or teach it or, you know, because it's a common pattern with things that change states. So it was really cool to, to implement. Yeah, that's awesome, man. Seeing that that get implemented was wicked. And I think the article is going to be good because they're going to be. Plenty of people have no idea what a state machine is, so if you can, if you can just write something up, that'd be great. Just get that out there for us, please. Will do. No, awesome. Awesome. Love it. What about you? Any wins? Oh, yeah, I forgot about. No, don't sip that coffee. I don't actually sip the coffee. No, no, no. It's too late at night for coffee. I was about to sip tea from my pie bites mug. We should do this. We should do this live, man. Let's see what we're talking about. We could actually. We're doing some live stuff on Facebook soon for everyone listening. So couple of weeks away, this might be, it might just be like a live podcast when it comes down to it. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. It was worth joining. So we will link the Facebook group below and go check it out. In a few weeks, we will go live there. Yeah. Just an organic plug for the Facebook stuff. Enough to do the ad segment. No ads this episode, people. So, yeah, so I did some coding today, but that's my win. So actually, firstly, my win is that I survived last week without you. The Piebikes didn't implode, which was great, but. And, you know, the bills got paid and stuff, so win win. But I was going to say that today. I coded. It was super. So much fun. I actually got to code, dedicate time to it and I was getting stuck. And I was just like, yes, I gotta go read some documentation, gotta play in the rePl. It was just, it felt good. It felt really good. And it was just, you know, text manipulation stuff I was using. Was it open PI Excel to do some stuff with some Excel sheets and pull out information? I'm going, yeah, this is silly. Maybe I should go to CSV. And then as I'm playing with it, things just kept getting bigger and bigger. Oh, wait, I got to consider this. Oh, wait, some of the input text is actually like this. And it just blew up, which was wonderful. And now it's not something I can deliver in one day, which I thought it was going to be. So back to manual labor just to get it over the line. And I'll keep coding for the next month and. Or the next couple of weeks, whatever time I can put to it, and use it next month, which is going to be good. So that's my. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Because lately you're not doing that much coding because you're more in communication. Right. Comms, marketing, business, all that stuff. Right. So, yeah, it's nice to dive into some technical code and not have to worry about people and just, uh, have a, have some errors yelled at me. It's. It's really nice. Seems to. You're really missing. Right. I do definitely miss it. Definitely miss it. Um, but it's nice doing it on my own, like, without the pressure. Right. It's nice being able to do it myself and just have some fun with it and make it as janky as possible. It doesn't, doesn't conform to any Zen standards or anything like that. As per the, the email, we'll be sending out shortly. So, um. Yeah, anyway, it's all good. So good. It seems you're really happy when you talk about code, so I'll stop criss fossing, you know? Yeah. Thanks. You can you see it in my body language? All right, so we'll dive into the episode. Jesus. Like, ten minutes of just yammering on. But, you know, we. We've been apart for two weeks, so hopefully you all just put up with it before we dive into the episode. So, Bob, this week I was thinking we could have a brief discussion on a very taboo topic, career stuff. And that is salaries. That is the money that. The pursuit of cash, of a higher salary, a higher wage, whatever you want to call it, and just the realistic impact that has on us. What do you think? Yeah, sounds interesting. So what's the deal? All right, so as we all know, we all want to get promoted. We all want to cash, we all want to get pay rises. We all want that sort of stuff, right? And. But there is. There is a downside to that. You know, it cannot all just be about the cash. And, of course, money, it puts food on the table. Never going to debate that. So as long as you're getting the. What are they? What do they call it, Bob? The core things for survival. Maslow. Yeah. What are they? Well, you first eat and sleep and then spiritual, like that. Hierarchy or hierarchy. Yeah, that's the one. So as long as you can fund those things, you know, and the necessities for survival, like shelter and everything, of course, that's a necessity. We're not. We're not debating that. What I'm talking about is the. The constant pursuit that we're all. I want to. Don't want to use the word indoctrinated, but we all just feel that what we have to do in our careers is chase the bigger paycheck. And I don't know why that is. I think it's the culture that's born in the western world or whatever. It's getting a bit theoretical here. But the point is that we all feel like, hey, pay rise time is coming, we should be seeking x. Many thousands of dollars in an increase. And yes, we have to meet inflation, but that doesn't need thousands of dollars extra per month. Right. And then when we don't get it these days. These days. Yeah. I know this is a poorly timed inflation conversation, but the point is that when we chase these thousands and thousands of dollars, there is a detrimental side effect to that, and it's not always necessary. So from your experience, Bob. And from the way you see it, what are some of the downsides of chasing the cash? I think the price tag comes associated with it. Yeah. Often it's not without consequences and that you're expected to deliver more, have more responsibility, be more responsive. So if that leaks into your evenings and weekends, how much is then really worth? So it's very easy to think in absolute values like I make 1020k more, but what is the relative value? Because if you're working double hours, and I think Tim Ferriss wrote about that in the four hour workweek as well, how many hours are you working in comparison to what you're earning and what is then actually your hourly wage? And your hourly wage might actually go down or at the very least the quality of life. Right. So I think that's the main concern with that. Yeah, no, I agree. Apart from inflation, because that's really real. Yeah, exactly. And the catch is that, um, bang on exactly what you said, that if you're, you're paid for 8 hours a day, your, your annual salary is based on an eight hour day. Or, you know, if you're a shift worker, 12 hours a day, whatever, 40 hours a week, 48 hours a week, depending on your cycle. Right. But the point is, is that you have a finite amount of time to earn that money. The second you start working over those hours, you are devaluing your hourly wage. And that goes hand in hand a lot of the time with that pursuit of cash. So when you get pay rises, the way to get a pay rise in any company is the rule of thumb is provide more value. You get paid for the value that you're providing. So if you are providing more value, the hope and the idea is that you will increase your salary to match that value. The question we should all ask ourselves is what's it costing us to provide that value, that extra value? So is it going to mean taking on extra projects that then leak into your personal time? Is it going to mean an excessive amount of travel that takes you away from the family that you're supposed to be supporting or, you know, not supposed to be supporting, but you know what I mean? Is it going to result in a lot more stress and mental health hits, you know, as you're stressing about meetings and presentations and reports and all that stuff? All of these things take their toll on you, on your family, on your life, on your goals, everything. And okay, it might come with an increased price tag, but where is that line? And that's what I'm hoping everyone listening to this as you listen to this, you'll really think to yourself where is that line for you? Where is that line where you say okay, it really isn't worth it to push more than this because if I do, I'm losing what it is that I'm working for in the first place. So for me, you know, just obviously candid is always for me, that's the family. And if I get to a point where working more and pushing for that promotion, pay rise, whatever is going to result in me say something simple like this, how about this? Commute to the office every day. So I work from home full time. I don't have to commute to an office. But if a pay rise of say ten k comes along and they say, but the requirement is you have to be in the office every day, not happening because that would take me away from the kids and my wife and thats worth far more than ten grand to be doing that. So you have to draw that line and you have to consider to yourself is it worth it? And it might be okay for someone who wants to sit there and say, you know what, im fine with working extra hours in the evening. Im fine with, you know, after dinner and stuff, hopping on the laptop in front of the tv and shooting off emails

from 08:00 p.m. Till 11: 14:53

00 p.m. But you just got to remember that your salary is now devalued by 3 hours a day. So there's all these balances and checks you need to have in place to make sure that hey, you're protecting that value. Hey, if you can get, and by the way, if you can get the pay rise for 1015 year and do no extra hours, keep it, take the money and run, you know, that's amazing. Fantastic, congratulations. But if you're sitting there on the phone on call responding to emails from five in the morning till midnight, my opinion, Bob, my soapbox opinion Bob, is you really got to think about is that worth it? What are you doing? Because that's a lot of time and the type of work because people we talk with, they often don't have any complaints about the salary but kind of what their work has turned into from more engineering technical to spreadsheet managers and they hate it. Right. So yeah, very relative. But maybe the one exception, like if we would have answered the question 15 years ago, maybe when you're starting out you're more willing to say yes to more things to build up career assets, right? Isn't that true? Yeah, I agree. When, when I was single when I was, you know, living alone. Actually, I never lived alone. I was living with my parents while I was still single. I moved out and got married straight away. So, yeah. Okay, let's say living at my parents place, first job. Oh, yeah, you better believe I'd be. It was kind of exciting,

the idea of sitting there at 08: 16:31

00 a.m. On my sun ray back in the day, first thing in the morning, and then, oh, I'm just

going to log in at 10: 16:40

00 p.m. This is cool, you know, and enjoyed doing the work and just getting it done. There was a certain satisfaction there. So at that point in time, it was totally worth it. But that was a good, what, 16 years ago? And so since then, I think I've grown a lot. I've learned to really value what matters in life for me and what those important things are. And sitting here

and working at 10: 17:05

00 p.m. On a work thing is not something I value at all. Yeah. Same it. Excessive travel, sacrificing weekends and all that. I think the family is what. Also, when you get kids, things change. Well, they can, you know, definitely know people who. It hasn't really changed, you know, that that's on. That's on you, that's on me. That we. We value the family more than the other stuff. Right? We do. What we have to do is support them, and that's, um, that's what's important. But to someone, it might be, you know, their values might be completely different. And we're not going to lecture anyone for not having a family or not putting their family first or whatever their. Their values might be. Well, I want to work so that I can travel the world. You know, I don't want to sit here and at a desk all day and go nowhere. I want to see the world. So if that means working a few extra hours to make that happen, then, you know, hats off to you. That's amazing. So. But you just got to find that. That value, that the thing that makes you want to work hard, that makes you want to do those extra hours if they're there to earn more money. But then where to stop? Draw that line. That's. That's the important thing. If you don't draw the line, you just. It's not worth it. Nothing's worth it. Yep. So, main takeaway, draw the line, find the balance, and look for the hidden cost, maybe. Yeah. Is that a way to say hidden cost? And that's a good way to even realize, like, we mentioned with burnout a few times before. It's a good way to take stock of it and just make sure that, and catch that you might be in that situation in the first place where you need to draw the line and that you might have, you know, taken on more than you're willing to take on. So there you go. Awesome. Anything else? No, that's all good. I'm happy with that. I'm happy I got that off my chest. It's just. It's something I see a lot. And I'm not talking about my day job. I see it on the Internet, I see it on twitter, I see it on Reddit, see it everywhere. It's like that. Actually, you know what? I haven't seen that movie in a long time. That pursuit of happiness movie with Will Smith. Yeah, 2005 movie, I think. Yeah, yeah, something like that. It was a long time ago. Too long ago. That's a good one. Yeah, I remember when it came out. That's good. Anyway, speaking of media, we should do these books things and wrap up the podcast because everyone's getting tired of hearing my voice. Books, books, books, books. Actually, reading your createspace book. Thank you for that. I finished. I'm looking through books here. Stefan Hawkins, big questions make answers. This latest book they released after he died, super interesting. I mean, the physics, I couldn't follow that, but it does talk about the future of the human race and interplanetary travel, climate change. It made me reflect a lot on the future, you know, and it was super interesting. Again, the physics I got totally stuck in. But it's not only that, right? It's also the other parts are way easier to read in that book. And this was one of those books that just really made me think, like, wow, there's, I mean, we're eventually gone, but the future generations, they're going to have a tough challenge with a lot of things, you know, and things. Good to be aware of that. Yeah, that's cool, man. Actually, you even tell me you've written that, you've got to send me a link. I love that sort of thought process. And for me, the greatest, other than, you know, the family stuff, the thing I look forward to most is seeing us leave the planet, seeing us get into space travel like that. But, yeah, according to him, that that's going to be like a necessity. It's not like optional. Yeah, no, I agree. And maybe it's just because I'm a huge Sci-Fi buff and I love those books and shows and stuff, but, oh, man, I wish I wish I was alive. I'd be alive for the day that that happens. That's. That's my dream. There you go. My refactoring second edition Martin Fowler copy arrived, so I'm looking forward to going through that. Cool. What about you? Um, I'm. Well, okay, so I've. I've almost finished. Create space. I've been creating space to read it, to listen to it. Go on, go on. I set that up. I'm sorry. Uh, so I'm actually started reading that blockchain book that we haven't mentioned on the podcast. It was called blockchain revolution. Because, I don't know, I just. I couldn't care less about the whole cryptocurrency thing for me. It's just. It's new technology, and I want to know what it is. You always, you know, you hear about it everywhere. Everyone's talking about it, coding for it, all that stuff. Right. But I just. I've never formally read about it or tried to learn about it in any official, you know, way. So that. That's my plan. So I'm going to start reading that. That came recommended by Marella again, which is awesome. So thank you, Marella. I will read that. And the other thing I forgot to mention to you before the podcast, Bob. Now, no one can see this, but I'm going to start reading this. The python testing with Pytest second edition, which, you know, spoiler Bob and I helped review for Brian, Brian Oken, who is the author, if you didn't know. And yeah, I was super surprised. I opened the front cover and there's a shout out, like, for you, you and I, a quote from each of us on the, on the book, which is really cool. So thank you, Brian. Yeah, thank you, Brian. We love you, man. We miss seeing you at Picot. Well, you weren't even there. Neither were we. But next week, what was the quote? The quote. Okay, so you may as well do some publicity for Brian. So here you go. This python testing with Pytest second edition by Brian Oken is actually a fantastic book. So my quote was, the knowledge and experience Brian brings to these pages has made this the definitive PI test resource for me. New or experienced, this book will be your one stop shop for all of your real world PI test needs, spoken by Julian Seguera. And then we have Bob's quote in there as well. I'm not going to do a Bob accent. I'm just going to make you sound like me. You better not. This is my pytest. Go to book. Thorough coverage, great code examples, and accessible. If you want to write great test code and become proficient in what I think is the best python testing framework out there, study this book. I love that part. Study this book. Mike drop. Yeah. Did you drop your mic on the floor now? Hell no. Expensive. Everyone's listened to enough rubbish on this podcast already hearing a mic drop? No, no, but it's a wonderful book. So we, we obviously read the. Yeah, we've read the first one and we reviewed the second one, all the new chapters and things like that, and it was great. I thoroughly enjoyed it. So it's definitely something to keep on the show. And talking about Brian is the test and Code podcast, which is pretty awesome as well. Yeah. If you haven't listened to that, definitely give that a listen. And overall, he's just the top bloke. We just love chatting with Brian. He's such a. Such a lovely guy. So kudos on the book, man. If you're listening, kudos, Brian. Congratulations. If you're listening. If not, we'll send you the link and say, listen to the last two minutes of the book. Ignore the rest. Ignore the rest. All right, we better go. Everyone, thank you for listening and sticking around to the end. This episode was definitely a fun one for us because we're back together, the boys are back together, so take care. We'll save up some minutes next time. Yeah, I won't do that. Not at all. Not happening. Thank you for listening, as always, and for tuning in. We will be back next week with something. I don't know what, but we'll do it. Yep. Topics feedback, info at Py Bytes thanks for listening. We'll be back next week. We hope you enjoyed this episode. To hear more from us, go to Pibytes free. That is Pibit es friends and receive a free gift just for being a friend of the show and to join our thriving slack community of python programmers, go to Pibytes community. That's Pibit es forward slash community. We hope to see you there and catch you in the next episode.