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One little tip I'll give is, if you ever get interviewed by me and I say, where do you want to be in three to five years? And you say to be. I want to be a manager of a team. I'm not likely to employ you because that's of no interest. What I want you to tell me is that you're excited by technology. This is the vision I've got. I need to learn this, and I want to learn that. Hello, and welcome to the Py Bytes podcast, where we talk about Python career and mindset. We're your hosts. I'm Julian Sequeira. And I am Bob Beldebos. If you're looking to improve your python, your career, and learn the mindset for success, this is the podcast for you. Let's get started. Welcome back to another Pibytes podcast episode. This is Julian, and I'm actually not here with Bob today. Bob's decided to ditch me, but it's fine. I've got an improvement. In fact, I have a very special guest with me today, Reese Powell. Rhys has been on the podcast before. I think it was episode 1727. Ages ago. Ages ago. It was yonks ago. So, Rhys, welcome. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you very much for having me. Welcome back. I should say so. Yeah, no, my pleasure. I thought it's been long enough. There's a great topic we got to talk about today, but before we dive in, do you want to introduce yourself to anyone who hasn't heard, heard of you before and. And what you do and all those things? Yeah. My name is Reese. I've known Bob and Julian for quite some time. I've been through the. Yeah, maybe. I certainly say when I speak to you, not you, Bob. Not you, Bob. I've known Bob and Julian for quite some time. Been part of the developer mindset course, been through that, which was very, very useful for me and opened my eyes to my situation being very similar to other people day to day. I'm currently a contractor. I'm playing with Kubernetes and infrastructure and automation and all that kind of stuff. I have a long history from sysadmin working through to where I am now. I have been a manager of a twelve person team. I've been everywhere in between that as well. A little bit of experience around what we're going to talk about today in terms of interviewing and being interviewed, because I've had a lot of jobs. No, that's perfect. You bring a wealth of experience, which is why I love having you here and having you around. But before we dive in. I actually wanted to ask, because Bob and I normally do this. Do you have any wins you want to share with everyone as we dive into the week? I've made a wonderful cake for my son's birthday tomorrow. That's quite a win. On the more technical side, I've been playing with a bit of machine learning and what people call AI these days, but generative networks for making pretty images from words, and I'm getting quite excited by that. Oh, that's exciting. Yeah, there's a very cool topic. And the cool thing is it's very python based as well. Nice lightorch and fast AI and all of that kind of stuff behind it. So that's been quite a cool win. Producing pictures of Johnny Depp and very weird dancing pictures of which I know you've seen. Sam and Johnny Depp was good. The dancing people were a bit surreal. Yeah, those were kind of creepy. You'll have to. With legs that were like, you know, weirdly intertwined. Intertwined. You'll have to. You know what you can do. You have to write a blog post for us on your experience with this stuff. I'll do that. I'll do that. There you go. Holding you publicly accountable. Awesome. More work. Nice. All right, so, look, we'll dive in, everyone. Thank you for tuning in. As always, Reese is here to talk with us about and to share some of his experience and knowledge when it comes to the job hunt. And I thought this was really timely because I've come across many, many people recently who are changing careers, who are getting frustrated with the job that they're in now, who are seeking that change, who want to work from home, want the coding job, all those sorts of things. Right? And Reese has just had so much experience and has great insight into this from both the side of a hiring manager and from being someone technical who's wanted to change his career path a little bit, try something different and break through those barriers. So I'm really excited for Reese to share some of those tips. So, Rhys, where did you want to start with this? Let's go back to the beginning. So, one of the things you called out there is the whole people changing jobs and things like that, which I've done myself, move from manufacturing engineering into working with the IT industry, but also graduates. So that kind of first level job that you're going for, I think it makes the most sense to start. Yeah, definitely. Let's give that a crack. I was coughing into my elbow just as you asked me. That question had to come off mute. Yeah, go for it, please. That's what I was. Cool. So, you know, there's all when, when looking for any job. And I suspect that people might not be the same in other industries because maybe there's not this long list of requirements that you get. Most tech companies are terrible at actually working out what they want from an engineer, so they will list every cool topic that is out there at this moment in time, partly because engineers get excited and go, whoo, shiny new, but also because of the fact they don't fundamentally know what they want. So I think my first kind of thing is to apply for anything. If it interests you, if it excites you, just apply for it. And, you know, there's a definite dynamic that men are quite good at this. Apparently, if it's more than 50% that they know, they'll apply for it. Women seem to think they know, and I was reading a statistic the other week about it, but this applies to anybody. It doesn't matter who you are or what level, level you're at, and you could be a senior moving into a completely different kind of section area of technology. But if the job interests you and the company seems to align with your values, then drop your cv in, you've got nothing to lose. The worst thing they can say is, sorry, no thanks, you're in no different situation. And then the benefits from there grow to you get an interview, which is always cool because interview practice is great. Two, they might offer you a job and you might find out it's your dream job and you stay forever and love life from there on. So first thing is, if it interests you, it seems right and the company aligns, do it, go for it. You've got nothing to lose at all. Yeah, I like that. That's great advice, because we often look through that. Here's what the job entails. Here are the basic qualifications, here are what we really like, and then you just think, yeah, that's out of my league. There's not a chance I'm doing that. But I like that concept. Like, throw that out the door. If it interests you, go for it. I think it's really cool if you're looking at the lower end, the junior, the mid level, and to be fair, people advertise junior jobs, just go for it. I've seen junior jobs where they list this long kind of things, whereas in my experience. Have you got an interest in computers? Do you know how to turn one on? Because the stark reality, most juniors, particularly straight out of college, have no idea what computers do because they've been taught in college and university and they have no idea what computers really do in the real world. And if you're job shifting, then the other thing you've got to remember is that while you might not know the specifics, you will more than likely have an awful lot of transferable skills, particularly if you've come from a background where problem solving is something that you've had to do on a daily basis. Because my job now is basically solving problems all day, every day. So don't be afraid to get in there and apply for anything that kind of interests you at all. Yeah, that's. That's great advice. Bob and I, we were live on Facebook last week and we talked about that exact point, those transferable skills from, you know, I guess, positions that would be side on or run parallel in a way. So, you know, we used to both be in support for enterprise hardware. It definitely wasn't a coding job, but that skill set of being able to troubleshoot and break down problems into their tiny pieces and pinpoint where the issues would lie, insert stuff in there to try and replicate the problem, you name it. Those skills came highly. They were highly valuable for us when we started looking into development. So I really like that same thing goes for it's not just about the coding stuff. Right. If you happen to be someone who's worked in customer service before, those skills, if you were good at it, if you were good at talking to people and excelled at that kind of a thing, whether it be retail, working at McDonald's or at a retail shop or something, if you got a kick out of that and you enjoyed it, there's a lot of different places that can take you as well. So that's great. Thanks, Reese. So, look, what I wanted to touch on was something you mentioned at the start of that, where you said if the company, if you look at the company and they sort of align with your values, or you kind of like what their values are. So what other things do you suggest people look for in a company when they're thinking about interviewing and applying for a job? Funnily enough, that's the next place we were going to go anyway. That's what I was saying. It's almost like I had a bulleted list of things to look. There you go, Bob. So, yeah, the values thing is key, and it's something that I've discovered over time that I've generally been much happier in roles where companies have aligned with my values. And this is all a fairly new thing to me. So if people are out there going, well, values, what do you really mean by that? You know, really looking at yourself and what are the key things you want to do or what you need out of your life? What. What are the things that give you energy and make you happy and drive you forward? So it's a fairly new thing to me, and I've kind of fallen into good places and bad places by not following this. And what I've realized is that the good places or the places I've enjoyed working the most align with my particular requirements in life. So you being aware of those and what they are is quite useful. But then there's also, what can the company give to me? And we're not talking wages at the end of the day, we know that there's a big bun fight out there, there's silly money being thrown around, and we are substantially rewarded as an industry. So the stark reality is ignore money to a certain extent. Make sure you're not getting underpaid, but look at what are the additional values that this organization can bring to me. So I will go back. If you've got no previous experience and you're looking to move into this realms, have they got a lot of engineers who seem to have been there for, like, two years, who came in at a fairly low level and are still. There is a generally a good indicator that there is a process to help these engineers skill up, and they want to stay there because they're still learning and they're still driving forward. Is it the pathway you want to take? Does, you know, while I say, mention that if the job interests you, is it a step in the direction you want to go? And having an idea of where you want to be is the first step in getting a job and don't let that be. I want to be a manager. I want to run a team. One little tip I'll give is, if you ever get interviewed by me and I say, where do you want to be in three to five years? And you say to be, I want to be a manager of a team, I'm not likely to employ you because that's of no interest. What I want you to tell me is that you're excited by technologies. This is the vision I've got. I need to learn this, and I want to learn that. But that applies for you. Looking at the job of, is this a step in the direction? Does the company, if I go into this role and I find that I like the company and they give me what I need, there? Is there the opportunity to then move a step further into that role. And they might not be, but it might be a great company. But then what you've got to look at is what is the longevity of this role? How easy will it be for me to move someone else? That gives me the next stage? So, values, what can they give me in terms of how can they help me grow, how can they help me be a better person when I leave as much as you leave them? Having helped them move forward and become a better organization, you need to feel comfortable that they can help you leave them being a better version of yourself and not what I'll call having worked for a certain consultancy where a 35 year veteran basically had seven years of experience because of the way the promotion cycle worked. He did the same thing every year, five years in a row, and then got promoted because he'd been there that long, which is not really. Yeah, growth. So make sure you don't get trapped in, you just do what I tell you and this is exactly how it's done and that kind of stuff. So, no, that's great advice. I definitely engage and empathize with a lot of that. That's definitely hitting home. I mean, the values thing is so important. I think we get to this point in our careers where we, uh, not everyone does this, but I feel like through the twenties, you're really chasing the ladder and you go, let me just see how much money I can make. I really gotta push. And then you get to your thirties and you start to, and of course I'm generalizing here based on my own experience, but, uh, you get to your thirties and you start to think, and depending on what you're doing, you know, for me, having a family, uh, you know, or putting, having that sudden priority in my life made me think, oh, work isn't everything, right? There's always going to be work. I've just, I'll switch off at five because I've got kids to look after. And so my values became more around from a work perspective, less around the technical stuff, and more around being able to give people a good experience when they work. Right. And that's the field I'm in now, and that's what excites me and that's what aligns with my values more than working as a developer, because I feel like I can give back more and leave the world a better place by doing this and make more of an impact on people. So have you, you know, you mentioned that this is stuff you're discovering recently or relatively recently? Do you have any more insight into that? Is there anything that you'd be willing to share that you found changed for you, values wise? Certainly. It's weird. I don't think. I don't think my values have changed that much over the years. I think my ability to suppress some of the anguish that not following my values has caused, but also me personally having to compromise on things. I think one of the things you just said about this churn, grow up the ladder, is that I've had a significant change much later in my life than most, because I didn't get married till later, didn't have kids till later. But that meant that I had a good ten to 15 years of it. Didn't matter about the tech, because I was so involved in it. I loved it, but I had all the time in the world. My life consisted of working for eight to 9 hours, going to the pub for four, coming home, doing another three to 4 hours of discovery on a particular piece of tech that might be broken, that might excite me or whatever, go to bed, get up the following morning. And the only time that changed was on the weekends where I go to the pub slightly longer because work didn't get in the way. But you know, there was that entire life that allowed me to grow and learn. And what I've realized is one of my key values for me is this idea of learning and growth and what I've had to do, because I can't fit everything into my personal life anymore, because apparently spending time with wife and children is a prerequisite of a marriage. I've had to find organizations that allow me to do that, that help me do that. And one of the reasons why I'm a contractor is actually because there's this level of a little bit of learning on the job. I know you and Bob frequently talk about this idea of just in time learning, which is great as a contractor because it's what you always do, but you find then you might need to work with organizations that like that, that work with that, that empathize with that, because that's how I fit in my value and my need basically, to continue to develop and learn and stuff like that. So there's a switch from an organization that is, you just do it, and I could learn at night to now, how long is it going to take? Can we help you get there? That kind of level of trust of letting me do what I need to do when I need to do it, as opposed to them expecting some kind of super brain. We'll go with all the cheesy cliches. Ten X, Rockstar, superhero, whatever other nonsense. Whatever other nonsense words that they use for these people that they're expecting who are magical, rainbow, fairy, unicorn and gold part leprechauns that just don't exist. No, I agree. I completely agree. I mean, I call it being treated like an adult, to be honest. Because when you're not, and they're monitoring every single second that you work, or they're, they're tracking everything that you do and then questioning you, what were you doing between these hours? You know, when it gets down to that granularity, you're treating people. You're being treated like a child. Right. And I don't even treat my kids like that, but, so it's ridiculous. So when, when you suddenly have that freedom to do things and it's. As long as the work gets done, as long as you know you're helping, you can pick the kids up from school, you can have that flexibility. I appreciate that. And I think I feel like that's just being treated like an adult, like an equal, as a trusted partner in whatever the business happens to be, and that's what you want. And so finding that, that's important. Yeah. Generally, if the organization is expecting you to do everything straight away and exactly in the timeline that you told them, there's a strong indicator that it's a dumpster fire and you will spend your entire life putting the fires out and not actually progressing forward to getting to the point of being proactive and changing and developing things. If that's the mentality set therein at a senior level above you, then there are deeper problems within the organization that will take a huge wholesale shift. That is very difficult and very, very slow normally. So that's something to be very kind of aware of, of how quickly all of these adverts you say you'll see the memes that are out there about, we're one big family, and you jump in at any time, all of this, and you just go, really? No, because I don't speak to most of my family, so why would I then want to join you? You know, I love the

idea of the buzz of being at 03: 21:02

00 in the morning and working. No, I don't, because it gets very tiring. And then your missus shouts to you because you've woken her up and she's been awake and everybody in the house is tired. So. Yeah, that's just funny. Very cautious. Very cautious. That is. That is funny. Slight tangent, but the whole thing about, oh, we're all one family. Right. Well, I would only let family call me in an emergency at two in the morning if someone was in hospital. Not because, not because the computer didn't start. Yes. Yeah. Because they want you on a presentation to match up with european or american time zones. Right. So that's not a family. That's not a family. So look, this is a really good segue to the last point I wanted to bring with you, bring up with you. It's something you and I have spoken about before. And actually, kudos to you. I want to give you this public credit. Hang on to it. It's the only time I'm going to give you some praise. The we had in PDM. So as Reese mentioned, everyone, he was in the coaching program with Bob and I. And there was a point where someone, a couple of people, I think we're looking at new jobs or something. It was a little while ago, a couple of months at least. And Reese had this great insight into. Here are some questions you should ask when you do get your interview or why you are interviewing, because as we all know, hopefully we all know by now that you got to have questions to ask when you're interviewing. Right? If you're being interviewed by a company, don't just sit there and say, now I got no questions other than how much am I being paid? No, that's the last thing you want to ask. So Reese had some great questions to let you dig into things and try and come up with these opinions yourself based on what people are telling you as opposed to what you're reading from a LinkedIn ad or some blog post on their website. Right? So if you were trying, Reese, if you were trying to find out a little more about those values, whether they match or even just what that experience is like, so you make a more informed decision, how would you interview the interviewer? So the first thing, and I think people are very afraid of doing this, is to ask the questions that are really, really important for you. And everybody thinks, well, I can't say that. I would say exclude the money, exclude the holiday, because that should have been stuff that you've got a vague idea about and comes down to negotiations a bit later, so long as you understand those. But there are things I'll give you. A good example is I worked at a place which was windows only, or I went to work for a place that was windows only. That doesn't work for me. I haven't used windows for anything other than Obs and a bit of djing software for 1213 years. So for me, I actually, one of the, because I almost got caught out by this, the question ask is, what am I expected to use on my day to day desktop, how locked down it is, and all of that kind of stuff, because it's a battle, and you will spend more time fighting the system than you will actually being useful to the organization and you're not bringing any kind of value. And then that's the next kind of question that's important because particularly of late, we've seen there's a load of tech jobs have gone because companies were having loads of funding and everybody was just like, just hire people. Because it's difficult to hire people. Will worry about where to put them later. Ask them what value to the organization does this role bring? That will indicate to you whether this is a we just need people, or whether there is an idea of what this role will be. And then you can dig even deeper on that. Depending upon the level of the role. Say you come in as a junior mate, or maybe even kind of towards the senior, what will you expect me to have delivered within three months? Because if they can't answer that, once again, they don't really know what the role is for and what you're going to be doing. There must be a reason why they've hired you, and there must be an understanding of their systems, their processes, the technology and the roadmap that they have of where you're going to fit in to kind of help deliver that. So those definitely start digging into, is this the right job for me? Is this the right organization for me? Another one to throw in there as well, particularly if you're kind of junior. What's the support structure? How do I communicate with people when I'm stuck in a problem? What is the process for me being supported as I grow within the organization? And I've worked for one particular consultancy that just absolutely hit the nail on the head with this. The level of support around you, with your immediate team lead up to various people up the chain that you would speak to on a very regular basis, door open policy, even at the CEO CTo kind of level. And they were super supportive in getting you to speak to other people in an area that you were stuck in as well. So there was huge amounts of growth there. But I've been at places where you just left to get on with it, which if you don't really know what you're doing, is very difficult. And that tends to be the places that we're talking. We're already into dumpster fire territory. If people haven't got time to spend you that they've spread too thinly, they're not going to be able to dedicate the time, which actually causes more problems. And it spirals down the final and I think the most interesting question I like to ask, and I'll only ask this if it's a job that I really want, and I'm not quite sure how it's gone or even if I am very sure how it's gone, but I really want the job. Is, is there anything I have said or not said in this interview right now that has brought any cause for concern to you or needs to be addressed before I leave? Because what that will do is allow you, if they're being honest, it will allow you the opportunity to cement further why you should be given the job. Because if there is any area, and it can be, you can have conversations and there can be so many things that miss that the interviewer deems important, and you're completely oblivious to that because of the way the questions and the flow has gone, because all interviews should be more of a conversation. And if you get it into a conversation, you're on to a winner. But then that allows them to go. So there's such and such you haven't covered. Can you give me an example of how you did that? Or can you demonstrate to us your knowledge around that kind of thing? So it allows you to give them the opportunity to not make assumptions about your ability or capability or skill set, but to actually ask out, right, you missed this. Can you give us a bit more information? And the reality is, if you've got no information about it, you just say, not an area I've covered, but I'm a fast learner, or it's kind of a topic I kind of like and I'd like to learn more. And that's part of the reason for taking the job and things like that. So never, never be afraid to put them under the spotlight. Make them work for the time that you're already investing in them just by being interviewed. So call out, what are you going to give to me? How is this going to work for me? Is there anything I can give you now, more information wise to make your job easier to pick? Yeah, that's the key point for me. I really love the, the sort of mutual understanding that you can build by appreciating that they're just another person who's, who likely been told they have to interview you. And so if you can make their lives easier, that earns a boatload of respect and appreciation. So if you like, they will likely have criteria. They have to tick off and say that, hey, this person, you know, Reese, you checked this box. You were, he was great on this. He wasn't so great here. So if you happen to make their life easier by giving them that chance to actually approach you and say, yeah, actually, I needed more clarification on this topic, or I wasn't too sure about your experience with X, Y and Z, by giving them that safe space to do it, because they may not always be that comfortable. People also assume that the people who are interviewing them are fully comfortable doing it. And there's a lot of impostor syndrome with interviewing. Right. So if you can make it easier for them, it's just win win for both parties. So I really love that you also, on the same vein as what you mentioned a bit earlier, one of your first responses to that, you taught me this, which was, you know, ask them, what am I? What do you expect from me in the first three to six months? You know, what is it that you expect me to accomplish in this job in the first three to six months? Because that's the, I mean, the first three months, you getting up to speed. Like the odds of you delivering anything massive in three months is nil, given you have to figure everything out, build your relationships and everything. So after that first quarter that you're working with them, what is it that they expect you to achieve? And that will really help you figure out if they've given it that thought. Do they know what it is that they expect from you in the first three to six months? If they come up with this, yes, we want you participating this, this, this, we want this. Then that's well thought out. That's a role that you're ready to dive into. But if they go, I don't know, actually, then you're sort of going, well, okay, gonna have to scratch my chin on that one. So I have, it's also very useful as well, because when you get into the job and you've got this idea that they've told you of what you want to achieve and you start having conversations and you start moving forward and having recently been there, is that if that what they said in the interview and then the realities that are panning out in real life, if they don't match and it's something you don't like, revert back to this one. Think, hang on a second, and never be afraid to leave the job. Don't hang in there when things are not kind of going down your. The trajectory that you wanted, the pathway that you want, and having that from the interview is very useless as a comparator for. I'm not feeling quite comfortable. Does this actually match up? And if you find it's wildly different, then what that calls into question is, are the core values of which you chose this company? Right. Do I need to. Do I need to make another change and just treat this as a contract? And I had a bit of interview process and start the cycle again a little bit wiser, another step forward on your journey. So, yeah, I like that. That's a very useful one for getting people to think about or demonstrate to you and then you using it as a reference to sometimes beat them with, well, you told me during the interview that we're going to go fishing every day. Yeah. And sometimes it might help the organization to refine their interviewing process, the hiring process, or to actually say, you seem to have gone off kilter from what you wanted. Is that a strategic decision of which, fine, it's not a path I want to go. Or have you just got lost because of other reasons? And maybe what you said then was right and we need to turn the tiller a bit and get us back on the right shipping. No, I love that. The, you know, that, that reminds me that the one question that I always ask without fail, and it seems kind of, what's the word? Stereotypical, like, you know, people will ask, ask you in an interview, oh, what do you love about the job? What do you like working here? That sort of thing. Right. Very generic questions, but I like to dive a little, just a little bit deeper into it and ask them. And I've worded it this way intentionally, but I always ask the interviewer same question to every person. I'm like, so you could work anywhere on this planet. You could do anything with your time. When you wake up, when your eyes open in the morning, yet you choose to roll out of bed, maybe throw on some clothes if you're not working from home, and then do this job for 8 hours a day. I'm like, what on earth makes you think that this is worth your 8 hours or your salary? I mean, you could do anything on this planet, and there's what you're choosing to do with your time. Tell me why. And then that you get a much more colorful, detailed, and meaningful response than the, oh, yeah, I like the benefits here, or I like that I get paid a lot of money, or I like my teammates. You know, you get way more than that. You get really deep. And sometimes they'll sit there in silence for, like 30 seconds, go, geez, that's a, that's a bloody good question. I don't know. Let me think about that. So I like that for finding out what the culture is like, what the experience would be like for me and so on. And, you know, it works well. I think it's a good one. Shows a bit of thoughtfulness. It's also excellent because if you are feeling a kind of empathy with, with your interviewers and you ask that question and they can immediately explain the reasons why, then your reason for interviewing there, because of how it aligns with your values. If you're empathetic to your it, to your interviewers that says you've got similar values, which then likely means the organization as a whole is a great fit for you because they are there. Because of the values that they've got. If they can't answer or they give you. Well, yeah, because me and my mates, you know, we go down the pub all the time, and sometimes you have to go, maybe the values are not. Maybe your values are. I like a good team thing, and going down the pub is great, which they were for me for a long time, the team and I realized that the team and that stuff was great for me. Moved slightly. Communication is what I realized about. But, you know, it's, it's, it's a, it's a very strong question. I've never worded it quite as well as you, so I'm going to write that down and use it in that way. So there you go. There's a compliment back. There's a compliment back. Don't expect it ever again. We've neutralized it back, back to zero. So this is even playing field. Reese, that was brilliant. Thank you so much for your time, everyone. If you hadn't gathered it yet. Reese and I have been friends for a while now, so we clearly love to have a bit of fun and bag at each other every chance we get. That's just how we roll. But, Reese, it's just been brilliant. As always, full of valuable insight, full of experience, and just. I just love it. I get a lot out of our conversations every time we chat. So thank you for sharing all of that with everyone here listening. Is there anything you want to add before we drop off? No. Thank you for inviting me on. The one thing I will say is that it's definitely, if you're in any doubt about signing up for Bob and Julian's PDM course, do it. I keep dipping in and out of the coding side. But for me, the mindset stuff has been absolutely tremendous to demonstrate that it doesn't matter where you are in your career or what level you are in your career or what's going on around your career, that so many of us hit the same problems at the same time. One of the things you called out, Julian imposter syndrome. And the mindset side of stuff has been an absolute eye opener for me. That my worries, my stresses, my woes are actually shared by hundreds of thousands of people out there at the same time. And just to relax a little bit, it will all be good. Anybody who's thinking about signing up for PDM, come along because Bob is an awesome coder and the rest of the coaches, Eric Christo and Co. And then Julian sometimes talks sense in the mindset. But more importantly, there's lots of other people in the mindset who do speak sense. So it's awesome. I'm just there to hit record on the session. No, thank you. You know what? To everyone listening, we did not plan anything for this podcast recording. We went as far as saying, hey, do you want to come and do let's chat about the job hunt? And that was it. So don't. Bob's finding out how little work we put in this. He thinks we spent weeks on it. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, thank you, Reese. I didn't expect that little plug for the program. So thank you, mate. I really appreciate it. Actually, before we drop, I almost forgot, is there anything you're reading that you want to share with the. I am actually reading. Finally getting around to reading the book that you sent me right at the start of my course. The one thing I think it's called. Nice. Yeah, yeah. I'm getting smashing through it. I've just hit 70% on it. Life, you know. Yeah. The one thing. Very good. Awesome. So I'm reading that at the moment and it's a book I would recommend and it ties in with lots of other snippets of information. And like I say, that the work I've been doing recently, so definitely a good read for anybody and everybody if they can get hold of it. And then I've got some mountainous Tome of Django four by example that somebody sent me that I've got to work through that seems really, really exciting and really interesting. Oh, no, that's good. Well, the funny thing is, that's the book I'm reading at the moment. I picked it up. I got my copy and picked it up. You've got strong arms Julian? Oh, yeah. I had to use a forklift. How to use a forklift. The kids were like, how many pages is that book? I'm like, 700 some pages, boys. I'll be reading this until you're, like, 50. So. But it's. It's a great book. I'm actually enjoying it. Nice refresher on Django. And it's just well written. I quite enjoy it. So no argument there. But fiction wise, I picked up the Earthsea quartet, so the wizard of Earthsea from when I was a kid. Great fictional book. I, out of the blue, somehow remembered it. Found it on, like, Amazon for, I think it was $10 or something like that. And so I'm reading through that again, bringing a lot of childhood memories back. It's good. I'm going to say the closest I get fiction at the moment is the upside down browns, which is 24 pages of five words at most, because my boy's got to read it for school. So that's my fiction reading at this moment. Yeah. Perfect. Kids books, my favorite. All right, well, Reese, we'll add some notes into the show, notes of where people can find you, because Rhys has a nice Twitch channel. He's doing all sorts of fun stuff. So please make sure you give him a shout. Follow him. LinkedIn. I think you're on Twitter, right? Twitter, LinkedIn, Twitch, mixcloud, everywhere. I'm there. I'm out there. Not hard. Make sure you like and subscribe. And. Well, everyone, thank you. Reese, thank you so much again for being here. Everyone listening, thank you, as always, for tuning in every week. We appreciate it. If you have any thoughts on this episode, any other questions you want to add into that mix of interview questions and or thoughts on it, this is a very. I want to say it's a very thought provoking thing, topic that we talked about today. Everyone's got their own different opinion on it, so I'd love to hear some feedback. So make sure you shoot us through an email. Otherwise, let us know what you want to hear next week in the week to come, and that's it. So, Reese, thanks again. Thank you. Beautiful. See, everyone, we hope you enjoyed this episode. To hear more from us, go to Pibyte friends, that is Pibit, and receive a free gift just for being a friend of the show and to join our thriving slack community of python programmers, go to Pibytes community. That's Pibit Es, forward slash community. We hope to see you there and catch you in the next episode.