But one thing that my outplacement consultant said is it's a marathon, not a sprint. Finding a job. So it's important to have your support crew around you. So whether that's for me, other people who were impacted in the same layoffs that I was, we just kept in touch constantly. It really helps. So you're not isolated in the job search. You're, you know, talking to your peers, and you can also bounce things off each other. Hello, and welcome to the Pibytes podcast, where we talk about Python career and mindset. We're your hosts. I'm Julian Sequeira. And I am Bob eldebos. If you're looking to improve your python, your career, and learn the mindset for success, this is the podcast for you. Let's get started. Welcome back to the Pyewites podcast. This is Julian. I am here without Bob this week. He's currently off on holiday, so I am actually hosting an interview with a very, very special guest. Today I'm interviewing Emily Wilcock. Emily is a career recruiter. She's been a recruiter for about 15 years now in the talent acquisition space and a good friend of mine and is also now supporting us at pie bytes with everything recruiting and CV and LinkedIn and all that sort of space. And today, Emily and I have this incredible discussion where Emily shares seven tips for people who've unfortunately gone through being made redundant. So this episode is dedicated to people who have gone through redundancy. There's been a lot that have happened in the tech layoffs recently at the time of this recording, and we wanted to put something out there for anyone who's listening that might be in that situation or anyone who knows someone in that situation. So if you're listening to this and you've been fortunate enough to keep your job and everything stable for you, but, you know, people who have gone through this pain, please make sure you forward this episode to them, because there are lots of valuable tips that Emily covers off for what people can do, almost like a checklist of what to do if this happens to you. So please keep this in mind. And also remember, a lot of these tips are appropriate for people, even if you haven't gone through being made redundant or being laid off recently or in the future. So without further ado, here is my interview with Emily Wilcox. And make sure to pass it on if this is, again, something that, you know, someone else could get benefit from. Enjoy the interview. Okay, welcome back. This is Julian. I'm here with a very special guest, Emily Wilcox. Em welcome to the podcast. How's it going? Good. Thank you for having me. So excited to be here today, Jules. Awesome. Yeah, me too. I'm very excited that you're here. We have a lot to talk about and I know as per the intro that I just recorded, maybe I'll record that after this. You'll see we are talking about a very, very special topic at the moment, but something that's meaningful to us both and that is to how people can handle being made redundant or being laid off, which is very topical right now with everything happening in the industry. And you've got some great tips for everyone. But in typical pie bytes fashion, we're going to cover off some wins. But before we go into those wins, do you want to just introduce yourself? You know, who are you? What are you about? What's happening? Absolutely. Well, thanks for having me today, Jules. Really excited to be here. My name's Emily Wilcock. I'm originally from the UK, west London. Moved to Australia, Sydney in 2007. I've got about 15 years experience in talent acquisition, including at Amazon Web Services where I met Jules best job of all. I unfortunately was impacted by layoffs in that position. So a lot of the tips that I'm going to be sharing today are based on my own personal experience and those of my other peers who were also impacted. I'm now in a contract position with the Reserve bank of Australia in Sydney doing some recruitment for them. And I'm also freelancing with PI Bytes and helping coaching some of the pie bytes developers on their cv's and recruitment. All things job searching. Love it. So there, there may be some bias in this episode because you were. You're working closely with us these days. It's awesome. And we love having you on the team, Em. So again, thank you for. For being part of the pie whites team as well. It's been so much fun. I love it. Good. That's right, everyone, you heard it from Em. She's not under duress. Blink twice if you. Um, so we're happy to have you here. And um, yeah, it's. Again, that experience of you going through redundancy is, um, you know, well, one you've bounced back, which is amazing, of course. Uh, but yeah, I really appreciate you being here to share that, uh, what can be a really intimate and um, meaningful situation to people, it can be very personal, it can be very touchy in some points as well. I appreciate you agreeing to share some of your story and tips, uh, for getting through with our, um, with our group today, with the audience with our. Our people. So, um. All right, we'll kick it off. Oh, by the way, I won't hold it against you that you're from the UK because you move to Sydney. So, uh, I I'm okay with that. That's all right. I also married an australian, so, yeah, I'm a citizen now. That's a. That's a stab at some of our, um, UK listeners who. You know who you are. Hello, UK listeners. All right, so wins. Let's kick it off. I did. This is one of the few things we actually prepared in advance. What's your win? You want to share with the audience? Well, my win this week, Jules, is actually being on the Pie Bytes podcast. I've never been on a podcast before. I've been super excited and a little bit nervous about it. So, yeah, I'm going to count that as my win for the week. That's awesome. Thank you. That's humbling, but it's cool. It's your first time on a podcast. We're going to make it very difficult, so you never want to do it again, which is good. First of many, I hope. First of many. And we'll have to have you back, because some of these topics we're going to dive into in a sec are definitely. We're going to hit them at a higher level, but there's definitely more that we can have you back on the podcast for later. So that's cool. Um, all right, so my win really quick. Uh, I won't. Definitely won't go into detail on this, but, yeah, I was promoted at work. Everyone who's listening knows I still work at AWS, so I was promoted this week, which is awesome. Feels good. Thank you. And the other win I wanted to share with everyone from a pie bytes perspective is we actually started working on something new, something completely different to python based coaching. I'm working on that with. I'll give you a hint, one of our previous guests on this podcast. So it's not a bob and me thing. We're bringing in someone else to build a whole new program to support a whole different subset of the population. And it's a. It's very exciting. Been fleshing that out over the past few weeks, and, yeah, you'll hear more about that on future episodes. So that's another win I wanted to share. Okay, so we'll dive in. Em, you can take it from here. We're going to talk about. Well, actually, you tell everyone. I've done enough talking. What are we doing? So I just thought, I'm sharing a few tips around what really helped me and what worked for me during the, during layoffs. And hopefully some of tips can be useful for some other people. Obviously, I know we're all in very different circumstances, so do bear that in mind. But hopefully there's something here that can, can help everybody. Yep. Perfect. Yeah, I like that. That little disclaimer. We know all of your situations are different, and if any of you have been affected by redundancy, we know some of these things may not come that easy for you, but just take it with a grain of salt. These are great steps and, you know, we'll get to that when it, when, when we get to it. So. All right, I'm taking away number one, what's, what's first on the list? So first on the list is, I guess, taking some time to absorb it, taking a bit, a little bit of a break and some time out to reset. And it can be a bit counterintuitive to do that because, you know, you're like, I've got to get into it. I've got to start the job search. But I think it's important mindset wise to make sure that you've kind of assimilated the information, that you've processed it. Because oftentimes I've seen, you know, people can have some anger, things like that. So you want to kind of get through that stage, get through the kind of bargaining, questioning, why me? To kind of some degree of acceptance. The other thing is, if you can take a bit of a break, it is good to do so. You may not be able to, like, I couldn't, for example, my husband was working, so I couldn't really go away. But once you start the job search, what you'll find, and what I found is that the momentum keeps going. You've got like calls and meetings every day. So it's like then you can't take a break because you're losing that momentum. So if you can take a couple of days when it first happens just to get a bit of space from it, so then you can come back with the right headspace to start the job search, then that's awesome. If not, you know, spend some time doing some things where you live, etcetera. But yeah, taking just a tiny bit of time out is tip one. Yeah, that's perfect. I like that one. Because you're right. The instinct as people who have mortgages and families to support is like, I got to get back into it. And it's actually counterintuitive. Because even though that may be the pressure on you, it's really important to mourn the loss. And I like that term. A friend of mine, Chantel, shared that with me. You have to mourn the loss. You have to come. There's that acceptance that you've lost your job that has been taken away and that now you're in this period of uncertainty and you have to get into that headset space of being able to navigate that. So I love that. That's a great tip. It's a great place to start as well. And then you come back, you know, you might decompress and realize, you know what? Yeah, life is okay. We're going to be fine. Let's get into it, you know, so. Absolutely. And a lot of people decide they want to do something different. So try and take some positives away from this. You know, it's an opportunity to think about where the positives are in the situation as well. Yeah. A nice way to realign with your values as well. That's a. That's a whole other podcast episode. All right, so number two, what's that? What's next on the list? So it's all sort of aligned to number one, but making the most of the time that you've got while you're doing the job search, because as adults, it's very rare for us to have time off where we're not working for a period of time more than a week or so. It really is. So I definitely, and again, this is know a situational thing, but I definitely wanted to look back and be like, I made the most of that time. I didn't waste that time. So, you know, as well as, you know, spending time on your job search, which we'll get to in the remaining points, but, you know, making sure that you are committing time to wellness. Advice I got was that you should, you know, you should study one thing that will help you professionally, but then something personal that you've always wanted to study. So, you know, if it's tech certification on the professional side, but on the personal side, it might be, you know, DIY or wine tasting or french or surfing or, you know, whatever it may be just something to kind of, you know, that excites you, that you want to study and, you know, make sure that you get up to date with all your health stuff. I definitely did all of that, like dentists, all the medical checks, everything, and any projects that you've been looking to focus on outside of work. So whether that's financial, like, making sure you got all your, like, finances in order, home renovations, spending time with the family, anything like that while you're doing the job search. The advice that I got from outplacement was that you should be spending, say, potentially like 4 hours a day on the job search, which is still a decent chunk of time, but it does give you time to kind of do some other things as well. That's cool. That's not something I even considered for this because as you're talking, my mind's just going million miles an hour. I'm thinking guitar with the guitar behind me. But it's. It's almost like de. What's the word? Decoding yourself from the work you were in. Yes. Where you might have been burnt out, overworked, putting in way too many hours. It's a nice way of building new habits. I like that. And then when you do it, inevitably land another job. You're like, okay, but I am carving out half an hour for guitar every day. I am spending. I'm there with my kids every evening, you know, reading a book. So I'm going to continue that and protect it. That's really cool. I like this. You're so right. Like building those habits, because don't they say it takes three weeks to form a habit? So, yeah, by that point, you're in the habit of doing whatever it is. So. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Then you're more willing to have boundaries. So. No, that's cool. That's a great tip. I really like that. And that's hour thing. 4 hours on the job search a day is a good finite number. Okay, so next, what did you have on the list after that one? Having your support group around you. So one thing that you often will get as part of a layoff is you'll get access to an outplacement consultant. In a lot of countries, it's a legal requirement. I found my outplace consultant to be absolutely phenomenal, like outstanding. So I definitely leveraged that resource. What do they do? What's an out placement? So there's lots of different companies that offer it. The big one, one of the big global ones is LhH. That was the one. That's one of the biggest ones in Australia. And basically you get a dedicated consultant who meets up with you on like a fortnightly basis to give you tips on your job search. They'll look at your cv, they'll look at your LinkedIn, you'll talk to them personally about, you know, how. How your interviews are going, what challenges you're having. Any, any reservations you've got, and they'll give you advice and it. So it's sort of like, actually, I was going to say in the making the most of the time, you know, one thing you could do is do counseling, get your mental health, you know, really good. But they also are like a counselor for the job search. And it's paid for by your old employer. Yeah. In a lot of countries, including Australia, it's a legal requirement you to have one when these things happen. So, yeah, definitely make the most of that resource. I found my outplacement consultant to be exceptional. So that's one part of your support group. But one thing that my outplacement consultant said is it's a marathon, not a sprint, finding a job. So it's important to have your support crew around you. So whether that's for me, other people who were impacted in the same layoffs that I was, we just kept in touch constantly. It really helps. So you're not isolated in the job search. You're, you know, talking to your peers and you can also bounce things off each other, like, oh, how does this email sound? Would you follow up here? It's like you've got, like a team helping you. What do you think about this on my cv? Like, you know, you couldn't have a whinge if an interview's gone really badly or if something funny happens, that kind of thing. And obviously friends, family, etcetera. But, yeah, it's important to have those people around you because if you're trying to do it all on your own, I think it would be so hard, and I definitely wouldn't have had the fun that I had this summer. It helps you see the funny side of certain situations as well when you're telling other people. So I think that's support group. That's, like, out of all of these tips for me, that was, like, the number one thing that helped me. That's awesome. I like that. It can be a really lonely experience going through the job hunt, whether you've been laid off or not. So having people to talk to about it. So it can be really uplifting, because if you go for a job and you don't get it, or whatever happens, having those people going, nah, man, it's fine. There's plenty more jobs out there. Fine, keep it up. Let's go have ten beers. Yes, literally, I had an interview and it lasted like seven minutes, and then I was a bit bummed out, as you'd imagine, really prepared for it and everything. And then when you start chatting to your friends and family, you can see the funny side. It takes you, like you said, it takes you out of yourself. Yeah. Really helps. That's a great tip. Yeah. And I think everyone listening to this and everyone who's going through it, you'll have an idea who your support group is already. Right. They might even be some of the. Some of your teammates that helped me. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So whether they were laid off as well or whether they weren't, you know, you might have just people you can trust, essentially, to open up and share with. So that's pretty cool. Uh, and I made new friends through it as well. Like the other people who were impacted. We really, like, banded together as a bit of a group because, I mean, I suppose that's the thing with mass layoffs. There was a lot of us, so it's. Yeah, we kind of like. And I definitely built some of them are now my best friends, but before we were, we were mates, but it definitely, like, speaking to them every day through this whole process is. Yeah, it's definitely brought you closer to the friendship. Yeah, that's cool. I like that. Nice silver lining. Yeah, exactly. That's what I think. Yeah. All right, next one. What's up next? We got. So your CV working on that. So that is your brand when you go out to the market. As you can imagine, a lot of employers are getting a lot of CV's, so you want to make sure that yours is as good as it can possibly be. I mean, you can even personalize it for individual applications that you're doing. But I also, once again, would get feedback from other people because you can be a bit too close, close to your own CV and your own experience. So I've definitely gotten feedback from other people. Put it in a Google Doc, got friends, family, mentors, professional peers and people I respect to edit it, have a look, that kind of thing, and refreshing it as time goes by. You can hone it based on what people are asking you and based on what employers are wanting to see. But, yeah, really work on that would be my absolute next step. And if you're getting to a point where your cv isn't getting the bites or getting the responses, then you can kind of go back to the drawing board and change things up a bit. This one's the hardest one, I reckon, out of all the tips. I agree. There's so much you could say about it as well. Like, there's a lot that you can do with it. Yeah, it's so daunting. It's such a such a difficult experience. I think one of the biggest struggles people have is talking about themselves and in paper form. Right. It's hard enough to do it in a conversation and not sound egotistical, but then, yeah, doing it on a piece of paper, trying to keep it to two pages, trying to go through those guidelines that come around, building your own cv and then having to talk about yourself and your achievements and what's relevant. So, yeah, that tip on having other people look through it, super valuable. So. And that's what you do in. That is what I do. It is what I do. And there are some really basic things that you can do, like, you know, make sure that in your current role, you've got achievements listed that is very impact focused rather than, you know, just listing out your job responsibilities. I see a lot where people have used very job specific terminology and acronyms. Don't do that. Make sure that what you're describing makes sense to a layperson, because often it will be a lay person who's reading it. Yeah. Make sure that the formatting. I immediately. The first thing I did was get a new template out so that my cv look quite current. I quite like that. Yeah. There's heaps of things that you can do that will make your cv look good. And don't be afraid to use chat GPT as well. Oh, yeah. That's really good for some of those bullet points. Take it with a pinch of salt. Some of them can be a bit too wordy, but it gives you, like, a bit of a framework. Yeah. Then you can work with it and. Yeah, cut it down and do whatever you need. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And that. That's worthy of another episode, I think, to even go through all those tips. Right. But, yeah, it's. So for those of you listening, I mean, even people who don't need to go and search for a job at the moment. Yeah. Getting. Keeping your cv up to date is super important. So definitely get on top of that. Especially as things are changing in your job while still fresh in your mind, you're not thinking, two years later, what do I do again in that role? So, yeah, nice. All right. I think. And that aligns to that tip that you give always, Jules, the brag file. Oh, the brag. That was something. Yeah. Like, that's something that I've taken away from working with Jules is. He suggests having a brag sheet. So, like, literally a list of achievements that you're doing. It's a working document in your job and then you can use that to put to keep to keep your cv current as well. Yeah. And you link it to the things you achieved, the impact on the customer and all that stuff. Similar to, you know, how Bob and I, everyone listening, Bob and I are always talking about our wins file that we update every Monday and share a similar sort of thing, but do that for your corporate experiences, your work experiences. And then when it comes time to update your cv, you've got all the data in one place. So. And we're giving away all the secrets and put ourselves out of work soon. No, that's cool. All right, so the next one's kind of related. We're talking LinkedIn, right? So what's on that list? So LinkedIn, and I know some people really don't like to do it, but I do recommend doing a LinkedIn post announcing that you've, whether, whether you announce that you've been laid off or that you're looking for a new role, however you word it, but to announce that you're in the market. And the reason for that is that typically people might, who don't want to do it might just reach out to the people they want to reach out to. And that's a good idea, too. But the LinkedIn Post gets your third, your fourth connections. And typically they're the ones that are going to find you a job because your immediate connections, you already know if they had a role, they would have already given it to you. You're in touch with them, they're talking to you. I know I got my job from a, somebody that I worked with in an agency over ten years ago when I did my LinkedIn post saying, look, my position was impacted. Thank you. I had an amazing time. I'm open to work. I'm looking for this and a photo. He messaged me like, hey, how are you? Hope Paul's well, Paul's my husband. I've got a role that could work out for you, and that's where I am. I hadn't spoken to him in over ten years. Likewise, another colleague that I hadn't spoken to in over ten years messaged me off my post. It wasn't, the role wasn't for me, but I passed it over to a good friend of mine and now he works there. So those posts, those are people probably that I wouldn't have thought to reach out to because they were quite far removed. But you don't know who your post is getting seen by. So if you do a post, you will get hit up for things that are absolutely not of interest and not relevant in any way, shape or form. That's okay. That's part of it. You need to just, you know, thank you so much for thinking of me. I'm pursuing x at this time, but I'd love to stay connected. That's totally fine. But it's just such a good way of getting the news out there in a really quick way and potentially reaching an audience of people that you wouldn't even know has opportunities for you. So, yeah, big tips to do the LinkedIn post. But before you do, make sure your LinkedIn is up to date. So make sure you've got, you're using your profiles fully optimized, that you're using the relevant words that will come up in search engines are going to for the jobs that you're looking for, that you've got all your sections up to date, that you've got your qualifications, your certifications on there, that you've got your achievements on there, so that when people do look at your LinkedIn profile, it's relevant. Another thing that I didn't do as much but is good to do is to keep yourself current on LinkedIn. So be a bit of a thought leader, post content, that sort of thing while you're in this time. That's definitely something I could have been better at, but it's something that is recommended. That's so amazing tips. I hope everyone's like, pausing writing these down as spitting them out. Yeah, that's super valuable, I was going to say. Yeah, keeping your LinkedIn profile up to date is very similar to keeping your cv up to date. And so, yeah, do it in that order. The profile first, because then as you make that post, people will come check you out, you know? Yes. And I, like, I know it's, it might seem stressful or weird to put a post like that out, even vulnerable to put a post like that out. But the reality is it's just, you know, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. You've, you've got to ask. If you don't ask, then people won't know to reach out to offer you things and they might just say, go, yeah, they're fine. M is fine. So I'm not going to rock the boat, but seeing a post like that might trigger someone to like, oh, actually, I had a chat with someone the other day who was looking for someone that would be a shoe in for, you know, so that's, that's why we should do it. We should get it out there, be vulnerable and let everyone know that we, we need their, their connections and support, you know, so. Absolutely. And the other thing on LinkedIn is, um, you know, when people do message you and they'll be like, hey, I'm so sorry to hear. How can I help? One thing you can say you, is if you enjoyed working with me and you'd like to write me a recommendation, then that would be lovely. And often I got quite a few recommendations from that, from colleagues. It's something that recruiters do look at, and it does look good on your profile, and it also is a way of staying connected to those people that have reached out and offered you help. So, yeah, asking for those recommendations can be good as well. Or asking them to comment on your post, that kind of thing. To comment for beverage, that sort of thing. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. That's a good tip. Now that's, that's a great tip for many of us who haven't, who aren't in that situation, and how we can help when it feels like you can't because you may not have a job opportunity, but you can certainly share out posts and like things and comment and make a recommendations. And that doesn't take much time. So great tip there as well. And it does. How it makes you feel good as well. When someone writes your recommendation, it's like, oh, I did make a difference there. And, you know, it can be a tough time. So it, you know, those things really matter to people who have been impacted. Yeah. And if. And if you can't say anything nice, you just lie. No, I'm kidding. Don't. All right, so that leads into the next tip that you had, which is about networking. So that's one of my favorite tips and things I love to talk about on the podcast. So go for it. What's on your mind with that? So one big thing, I think, is to always be networking. So even if you're not, haven't been impacted by layoffs, that, you know, they're not on the horizon. I definitely don't think I did this well enough, but when I was working. But I definitely making up for lost time is to make sure that you are always networking. So if you have been laid off, the recommendation from my outplacement professional was to do five outreach a day, over and above applying for jobs. Or sometimes if you've applied for a job, you can reach out to the job poster. I always recommend doing that, and I count that towards my five. But, yeah, five outreach messages per day, 100% recommend doing that. And she was like, it's manageable. And it really is manageable. Like, five is not a huge number. Then if you're inundated with interviews, you can kind of scale it back a bit and then rebuild it back up. But yeah, five a day is a manageable number. And just reaching out to people through your network, explaining, reminding them who you are, how you met them or how you know them, if it's someone you met a long time ago, what your situation is, what you're looking for and what you're asking for from them. So, you know, if you hear of anything that comes up or, you know, if you could introduce me to so and so or, you know, I'd love to have a coffee to learn more about your business or whatever it may be and then attach your resume and, you know, through that I had meetings with heads of recruitment all over the place and, you know, I'm still in touch with a lot of those people. It's, yeah, it's definitely a good, it can feel a bit awkward at first, but if you kind of treat it like, okay, I've done my five and then I'm going to the beach, or I've done my five and then I'm going to go and have a beer or whatever, then, you know, you kind of get into the rhythm of doing them. But yeah, definitely recommend that. That's cool. That's great advice. And again, for anyone, even if you're not, you know, about to be made redundant or something, is a great habit to get into of just networking in general. You never know when a connection might lead to a greater job opportunity or something else. Right. So, yeah, and even then, if you're doing like one or two a week, you know, if you're working and you're not, you know, you're not going to do five a day, I guess if you're in full time employment, probably, but, you know, you might target yourself on like a coffee a week or something. But yeah, it's good to set yourself like a little target so that you're accountable. Yep. And just one, one tip for me on that is that I know it can seem kind of daunting to reach out to people, especially people that you might not have worked with for a couple of years, but I gotta tell you, it's, I feel like it's human nature. I'm not a psychology expert, so don't, don't quote me on this, people, don't, don't judge me. But I feel like as people, we like to be thought of. Yes. You know, we like it when people come to us say, hey, you know, I was just thinking about you. You want to grab a coffee just to catch up? It's been, like five years. Why not? You know? So it's nice to be thought about, and it's nice to receive an invitation to just chat for 15 minutes or half an hour, and people will surprise you by taking time that you didn't expect them to make because they're like, you know what? I could use a break. Well, that's really nice. I do miss. Miss working with so and so, you know, or whatever your relationship is with them. But, yeah, give people more credit. Um, then assuming the worst, because I think I like to receive those messages. Please message me for a coffee, please. Um, I. I like stuff like that. So there you go. Um, okay. And last one, because these have been so informative. Um, and we're going to limit it to this last one. Well, that's. That's all you had on the list anyway. That's all I had. So interview preparation and practice. The big one. Yeah. When you do have interviews, make sure that you're set up for success. I liked doing, like, a five minute meditation before my interviews just so that I'm in the zone. I'm relaxed, I'm chilled. Make sure that you've got your tech set up all good. So it's super simple, but, you know, you're jumping between teams and zoom and different ones, so make sure that it's all working before you jump in. And I think also making sure that you've researched the company, researched the person. I'm very big on listening to the earnings call or reading the annual report, because then you can drop that into conversation. It looks like you've really looked into the business and prepare your smart interview answers. So your examples. So what was the situation? So star. Sorry. So what was the situation? Task, action. And it should be smart, too. Yeah, situation, task, action, and result. And the result should always be tangible or measurable, ideally. And don't do some practice with people if you're nervous, like do like, role plays with friends or family. Practice makes perfect as well. And have some questions ready for the interviewer. And the last one that I read is have a sheet where you've got your interview questions. And then if you get asked something that really stumps you, and then later you're like, oh, I should have said this. Then you can make. Write it down on that sheet because practice really does make perfect and it'll set you up for success for the next round. Yep. That was really quick. Fire tips there. No, I love those. And again, that's going to be a whole other episode, I think, because it's just, there's so much detail on each one. But I just wanted to emphasize that sheet that you mentioned at the end, because it provides so much comfort and confidence in an interview. And you can say to them, especially if it's a walk in interview. Right. Or hold it up in front of you and say, hey, I have a sheet with some pre prepared prompts. Just, this is the sort of prep I make for my interviews. It shows, I want you to know that I'm prepped. But also, it just, you can say, this provides me with a level of confidence so that, hey, I'm not going to read off the paper, but it's just a prompt to like, oh, yeah, that incident. I'll talk about that. If they ask about when I showed, you know, what else. So give me a time when you. So that. That's one of my favorites. And then the other thing that you mentioned that's so important is to have questions. I really not hate. I won't use the word hate. It's pretty strong. But when I've interviewed and people have not had questions for me, I've gone, are you not curious about anything? Like, really? So I'm like that. It actually kind of doesn't look great if you don't have any curiosity about anything. And there are some key questions you can ask, which we'll talk about another time. But the last thing. Sorry, Emma, just wanted to say that you touched on. When you're talking about having your responses with the star method, always use the talk. Try and focus more on what you did as opposed to we. Because a big mistake is to say, oh, we did this as a team. Yeah, but what was your contribution? Right. So prepare answers that have your contribution more than anything else. Absolutely. And always focus on the action part, so you shouldn't spend ages setting up, like, what was the situation? You know, we had a big meeting and the client was like that. They, like, keep that to a minimum at the, you know, the exposition there. And spend most of the time on. Yeah. What you actually did. Because that's what they care about. Yeah, exactly. Awesome. Well, m. That was. That was a marathon, not a spring. No, that was heavy. There was a lot of dense content there. So everyone, you know, you might have to listen to this twice. And just to get all those notes down, please don't ask me to go through the episode and write these down in the show notes. Oh, I probably end up having to do that in some some way, shape or form. But, um, em, that was amazing. Thank you for sharing. And I know that we've talked about this stuff to no end previously, and I know there's so much more you can do. So we'd love to have you back one of these days. Um, well, actually, let's see what the feedback's like. If the feedback's terrible. No, you're not coming back. No. Yeah. Then, yeah. My first and last podcast. So there you go. You got to give me feedback on whether we bring em back. Hope depends on my maiden podcast. Yeah. Yeah. First and last. But bucket list off. Yeah. Tick. Exactly. All right, so the before we wrap it up, typical piebites episode, we talk about what we're reading. So I'm assuming you're reading something. What do you got? So at the moment, I'm reading sTfu. The. What does that stand for? The power of keeping your mouth shut by Dan Lyons. And it's about how if you listen more than you talk, your blood pressure goes down. You're actually like a calmer person as well as a more successful person. And they cite, like, Barack Obama and Angela Merkel as examples of people who say little but make a huge impact. So, yeah, quite cool. That's awesome. I like that. I did look that up. I'm going to get a copy because I guarantee there are people going, julian could use a copy of that. Oh, I definitely need it. I'm still a work in progress. That's why I got it. It's to try and make myself talk less and slow down. So. Yeah, yeah. So an STFU stands for exactly what you think it does. Here it is. I found it. I'm going to have to get myself a copy. The last tip in the book is, if you still have struggle with this, just put sticky tape over your mouth. Okay. So actually, I'll quickly share what I'm reading. I was trying to read a new book that I got. I can't even remember what it was, but my eight year old wanted me to read the novel he's reading so he could talk with me about it, to share comprehension exercises and stuff. So I just finished reading Villain Academy. It's a difficult book, I tell you. No, it's a good book. It was terribly lame, but. And I read that for him and with him. And the actual book I'm going through on audible is. What is it actually called? Hang on. It's the Carl Sagan book. I can't believe I can't remember the name. Cosmos, of course, by Carl Sagan. Because it's narrated by a bunch of people, but like Neil degrasse Tyson and Levar Burton and stuff. But for everyone, I don't know if you remember, I was reading a brief history of time through an audiobook. I was listening to it and I got so bored. Stephen Hawking. I mean, it's great content, but I was so bored. So I've just shelved that, and now I'm listening to Cosmos much better. So I'm enjoying that. There you go. Beautiful. Well, thank you so much for being here. Do you have any parting words, actually? Where can people find you? Because I can imagine everyone's going to want to connect with you after this. Where are you at? So on LinkedIn. Emily Wilcox definitely hit me up there, as you can imagine. And through pie bytes, those are the main places. Nice plug. Thank you. Didn't set that one up. I've got. I'll have the link to your LinkedIn profile in the show notes as well, so everyone can click on that and spam your stuff. It'd be good. Yeah. Well, thanks, everyone, for listening. Em, thanks to you. Again, I've said it a million times. Thank you for being here and sharing such wonderful insight and valuable information, especially for the people who need it the most right now. I really, really appreciate you being here. No worries. And if anyone wants to reach out, please do. Beautiful. All right, everyone, thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. If you're watching on YouTube, and we will be back next week. Cheers. Thanks, Jules. We hope you enjoyed this episode. To hear more from us, go to Pibyte, France. That is Pibit es friends, and receive a free gift just for being a friend of the show. And to join our thriving slack community of python programmers, go to Pibytes community, that's Pibit es forward slash community. We hope to see you there and catch you in the next episode.