We're going to do this our way. We're going to do this in typical pie byte style. This is not going to be. All right, fine. Here's your piece of paper for completing the coaching program. It's like, no, you're going to complete the coaching program to a certain standard, and if you don't, you don't get the certification. Hello, and welcome to the Pibytes podcast, where we talk about Python career and mindset. We're your hosts. I'm Julian Sequeira. And I am Bob Baldebos. If you're looking to improve your python, your career, and learn the mindset for success, this is the podcast for you. Let's get started. Welcome back, everybody, to the Py Bytes podcast. This is Bob, and I'm here with Julian. How's it going, man? Yeah, it's great. Back into the rhythm. After all the traveling and stuff, last week was very busy getting up to speed, but now I feel we're. Yeah, we're very focused and we have a lot of momentum, so. Good. You? Well, I'm actually quite upset because this is our first podcast back since I've been back in Sydney. That's true. That's weird. Yeah. Last time we recorded together, we were sitting a meter away from where you're standing right now. It was a very. It was a great trip. Very happy. Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, yeah. But the amazing thing is, from the trip, everyone, we had some amazing idea sessions and just this diffused time where we got to plan out pie bytes and talk more about what we do and the direction we're going as a company and as a team and all of that stuff. And one of the things that came up was, which is now a big win, which is why we're not sharing individual wins this week. We're going to share one big win. Bob, what's the big. It is the win that we just rolled out pivots. Python developer certificates or certification. ANP. Yeah, certification. So associate and professional. Yeah. So now we have officially joined the ranks of places that issue certifications for your Python Python skills, and it's something that we're actually very, very proud of doing. So, Bob, I'll dive into this in a minute, but the first thing I would like you to do, if you could, is just tell everyone, you know, what's the difference between the two certifications? Like, how do they work? I'm glad you asked, because weren't we pretty critical about certificates a couple of weeks ago in Cordoba? Well, yes, we were. Yes, I was 135. Our concern with programming certifications. Exactly. And I remember being on my, I remember being on my high horse talking about them. And now here we have a certification. So because of that, if you can explain what these two certifications are about, then I'll dive into some detail. Isn't that ironic? Yeah, but that's also what drove us to actually do this, because as we mentioned then, the majority of certifications is multiple choice questions, rote learning theory, memorization, not really indicative of you succeeding as a real world developer. So we turn it upside down. We thought, like, hey, we already have this project based learning. We're already creating developers that really show that they have the skills, because they do projects and they come up with evidence and amazing things they build. That's what our criteria is, mostly what makes a python developer. The only thing we had to do is package the assessment criteria around it, which is no joke, which we'll get into it in a sec. But yeah, I would say it's hands on skill validation, no study, and theoretical multiple choice stuff. Our certification really have the baseline of mvp or minimal viable products or projects done by the people that take them. And I think that's the biggest thing, right? Yep, 100%. So if so, we have two certifications, as Bob's mentioned, we have the associate and the professional. Now, they're each tied to our coaching programs that you've heard plenty about. And there might even be an ad in the middle of this podcast somewhere with that, with those programs as coaching programs. But the PDI program, as you know, is for essentially, let's just be very generalized here. PDI is for beginners. PDM is for the intermediate to advanced. So the Python certified, the Py byte certified Python developer, a associate certification comes from the PDI program. So that you see someone with that, it's mostly demonstrating that they understand the foundations of Python. The fundamental knowledge of Python. The Py byte certified Python Developer P professional certification is tied to the PDM program. And that one has a mammoth assessment list that really, if you see someone with that, what I really want, my personal goal with all of this is if you see someone with that professional certification, you snap that person up. If you are looking to hire someone that is capable, because those certifications, the boxes they have to tick, and we'll have links to that assessment criteria below, are well above and beyond what you'll find in any other certifications. So that, to me, is very exciting. These aren't certifications that you'll see handed out every two days, every couple of seconds. If you search LinkedIn for them, you're not going to find one every five minutes earned. These are things people have to work for. And that really excites me because that means when people get it, it means they've really proven that they can build and that they understand their python. That's amazing. Indeed. They're not easy to get. So what are some of the assessment criteria apart from Python? So we'll talk about the professional certification here. For the moment. The professional certification is going to test you on all sorts of things. Your code quality, your ability to test, your ability to debug, working with those, as we always say, those satellite technologies that support Python as well. So allow you to succeed. So deployment, working with APIs and frameworks like Django or Fastapi, you can fill in the blanks, Bob. But essentially it covers all the entire spectrum of what it means to build and work with a production application, not just understand how does a decorator work or which one of the following multiple choice answers is an example of a I don't know generator? That's not how this works. So is there anything I missed from that list that you think we should mention? No, we will link the assessment criteria, but yeah, there's all kinds of stuff in there, AI tools, more modern stuff, but apart from python developer quality code, also things like agile planning, working as a real developer with these tools and in those environments, I think one of the things we're proud about is that we simulate that environment, fake it before you make it. Right? Like you can already work as developer before calling yourself one, because we emulate that exact environment, just maybe on a smaller scale. Yeah. And so to that point, because you're building, because you're actually proving that you can do it, your coach in those coaching programs is constantly checking in with you and ticking off that assessment criteria to make sure that you are meeting those standards. Right. As a result, these certifications don't expire because you've built something, you have built that application. It is no different to saying, I'm a software developer at company X. That's actually kind of a company now, isn't it? Company Y? And. Yeah, and you, you know, and you're a software developer working on application whatever. And that's how you prove in a job interview that you kind of know your coding chops because you have worked on something and you can regurgitate that knowledge because you actually had that hands on experience working on it. And that's what we are simulating and what people go through in the coaching program. So because they're actually working on things and proving that they have these abilities and these skills through hands on coding, the certification doesn't need to expire. I don't need someone to rejustify that they have code quality skills when I can see clearly on their GitHub that they do because they built something a year ago, unlike the certifications that expire every one or two years. So that's one of the main takeaways for me as well on this. Yeah, that's a good point. If it would be a certification for framework x and tomorrow you have framework y, then you need to probably recertificate because it's a whole different thing. But as most of the skills are so generic, if somebody learned web frameworks and mostly worked with Fastapi, the generic skills, tomorrow there's another framework. They can handle that. We are confident about that. Um, that's why these, these certificates will be timeless. Yep. Perfect. So one of the questions that we got asked when we only just launched this, uh, yesterday, uh, the day we record, it's actually, uh, October 31. I don't care when this gets launched. That's fine. Uh, it's Halloween today. I'm going to go devour half of the kids chocolates after this. No, you don't. Joking. No, you don't. Oh, joking. Oh, joking. So one of the things I wanted to bring up is the questioning that we got, like why, why did you make this? A couple of weeks ago you said that these certifications are pointless. So why would you make this? Regardless of how I feel and how Bob and I feel, our team feels, hiring managers, companies, the industry still puts some sort of focus and emphasis on certifications. So not only that, we have had plenty of people, as you know, to join us in PDM. We actually want to get on a call with you so we can assess where you're at, you know, which coaching option would be best for you and all that stuff, it's the best way to figure out where, where you're going to fit in this coaching realm that we have now. When we get on those calls, one of the questions we've had quite a few times is what certification do I get at the end of your coaching program? And, you know, as much as we can sit there and say we don't offer one because we think they're pointless. The people, the industry, everyone has this focus on them. Everyone has this innate desire to have that badge on their LinkedIn profile, to have something. So we said, okay, you can't beat them, join them. But we're going to do this our way. We're going to do this in typical pie bytes style. This is not going to be all right, fine. Here's your piece of paper for completing the coaching program. It's like, no, you're going to complete the coaching program to a certain standard and if you don't, you don't get the certification. So there will be people, I guarantee it, who either don't care about certification when they go through our coaching, so they won't pushed to that standard and there'll be people who try but don't quite get there. And we will do everything we can to help them get there. And it might need, you know, an extension type experience where they continue coaching till they get it and that's fine. But this is something that is very different to what's out there from the research we did. And that's again, something I'm very proud of and I think we should be very proud of. We have a big vision for this, right? We want this certificate as again, the assessment criteria list is not a joke. And also kudos to the team to running with this because it does require a bit more being on top of things. I really like it though. From the very start, when we started PDM, people came out with great results and tangible things, be it their projects mostly, but now we actually standardize it. The vision is that when you see that professional batch, like, oh, there's actually a lot backing that up and yeah, inevitably for that you have to standardize, right. You have to come up with some sort of checklist. So yeah, I think that's really exciting and we really have a big vision for that. But one thing I will say though, it's an add on, right? It's not required. It's not like you join PDM and the only way is the certificate route. It's only like it's still a flexible program, it's still about your goals. So if you don't have that goal of landing a developer job and you don't care about the certificate, that's fine. There are people in PDM right now that are building their startup, their app idea, and that's what they want to do because they want to or support somebody with it or they want to become an entrepreneur. They don't have to prove that they are fluent in python, they want to prove that they can build that app and that's still a valid route. And yeah, the minute they say like I want that certificate, then we enter the checklist. But again, it's an add on. It's not required. Yep. There are some people we've talked to from both past and present in the coaching programs going, oh, this is so great, guys, but I couldn't care less. And that's fine. Yeah, that's okay. That's okay. It's because they don't want it, they don't need it. They. That's not their goal. Right. PDM is very unique and agnostic to goals. So whatever the goal is, we'll support. And that's just how it goes. Right. So cool. So I think people might have some concerns with this or some common questions we already kind of heard here and there. So do you want to address some of those? Yeah, yeah. So just. I'll breeze through these very quickly because most of you know this sort of stuff. But there's a cost concern. Right. Number one, people are automatically thinking, well, it's got to be expensive, right? But we have these prices on the Pibytes website now for these coaching programs. But the PDM program is $7,500. Okay, there's this payment plans, there's different things we can talk about, but let's just say that's the price and that's just what it is. People sometimes will have a concern, sometimes they'll think we're completely underpriced. Everyone's different. The reality is when you compare us to a boot camp that provides far less than what we provide, boot camps wind up being double the price. So we've had plenty of people join who have gone through a boot camp and said, I've learned more in my first week of PDM for a quarter of the price of the boot camp. I've learned more in PDM in the first week than I did in two months in that bootcamp. So you know, the price will probably continue going up, if anything, as we continue linking more value to PDM. So the time commitment, we're looking at 10 hours a week. So to get through this, probably 2 hours a day, maybe the absolute minimum, one and a half hours a day, we'd be pushing it at that point. And so we look for 10 hours a day, 10 hours a week for you to do that. And then the up to date content people were thinking, well, how recent is this? Right? And the reality is it is completely up to date with trends, with market trends. You know, where we're using AI in our coaching as an assistant, we're teaching people how to use it to find answers, how to learn, how to pair program with them, obviously, the understanding comes first before you use AI, but it is there, it's here to stay. It's something that people should know about. We're not going to shy away from it and say, AI is the devil, so we're not going to touch it, we're not going to do those sorts of things. Right? Yeah, exactly. We're going to embrace the technologies that are out there, new frameworks, new whatever happens to be released. And you can rest assured that you'll get exposed to it if that's what you want. But the last thing I'll say is they're probably a huge list of things that you're concerned about with regards to coaching, with regards to the certification, any of this stuff. And that is exactly why we, if you look at the website, you'll always see these buttons and say, get on a call. Get on a call. That's not some sleazy sales tactic or technique. That is literally because this is something that is so unique to you, we can't possibly write everything on the website or it's just not going to make any sense. There's a very. I don't want to use the word boutique. What's another word to say? Custom. It's a very custom, individual, individualized program. Exactly. And so we need to speak with people on the call to be able to figure out how it's going to work for them with their lifestyle, their situation, their mindset concerns, their current technical aptitude and so on. And that's. That's why we have those calls. So if you've been sitting there thinking to yourself, uh, but I just don't want to get on a call, you. That's the first step. You want to hit Python success, you're going to have to work with people. So just come and chat with us. You've been listening to us for how many years now? Two years on this podcast. So this is. Should be afraid of Bob and myself. Yeah, totally agree on all those cost. Half of what a bootcamp cost and triple extra results, time commitment, 10 hours the least. But more is better. So it is the kind of program, the more you put in, the more you get out and yeah, the up to date content. We do code clinics every week, mindset hacking, and we always address, like, the newest stuff, but we also have strong foundations in the timeless stuff like code quality and python related content. And, yeah, you're right. Get on a call. We need to talk with you to see what your goals are and really see if this is a good fit and we spend a lot of time and good care in making sure it's a good fit because once you're in, it's a sprint and it's a lot of human interaction, so we really need to. To make sure we do good fit for each other. So, yeah, it all starts with a call. So call link is in the description below. Yeah. And once you're in, there's no escape. Once you're. Everyone jumps in and then they go, I never want to leave this community. So there's my. Something I'm proud of. Yep. Around circle now. And, yeah, alumni are there at lifetime access, so that's another nice thing. And they post a lot. They share some really good stuff and make connections. Yeah. It's almost too distracting now we've moved to circle to get more engagement going and now there's too much and I can't keep on top of it. So. Good problem to have. But I digress. All right, that's. That's pretty much it. So, look, if you have any questions about our certifications, please, you know, go to. Follow the links in the comments and hit us up. You know, go to the website. There are buttons to come and chat with us, to send us an email, you know how to reach us by now. And, uh, we can answer any questions you might have or any concerns, but, uh, just know that this comes at an honest community. Ask. People have been asking for this and we have pushed back for the longest time, and now we just were like, screw it. We got to do it, and we're going to do it way better than anywhere else. So that's. That's where this comes from. Um, so, Bob, last but not least, quickly, what are you reading? Anything? Oh, man. Putting me on the spot. Yeah, I needed some inspiration for content, so I went to Kleon's work. Austin Kleon, still, like an artist. Keep going. There are a couple of books he has, and, yeah, they're pretty. Pretty good. Yeah. So you said Klingon for a second. K l e o n. I think it is. I also started reading warm peace. He always joked that I read warm peas in the weekend, and that's going to take me half a year, I guess. Yeah. But it's good luck with good literature. Yeah, it'll be nice because I saw the bookshelf it was sitting on and the weight of that book was weighing it down. So it'd be nice to. You physically saw that? Yeah, yeah. Sagging. Hit my microphone. Sagging under the weight. Yeah, it's the. It's it's the dedicated shell for the russian classics. Yeah. What about you? So im still reading the book that I picked up just before I came over there to Spain. So, everyone, I went to a bookstore in Sydney with my wife on our anniversary the week before I left for Spain, and I said, im just going to pick up a random book and im going to buy it. And I was in the, you know, I think they call it like, self help section, whatever. And I just found this book called. What the hell is a book called, Bob? Oh, the Courage. The courage to be disliked is what it was called. Translated from a japanese book. It's. Don't ask me how old it is and how recently it was translated. But it's just a philosophy. It seems like it's a philosophy book on adlerian psychology. So, first time I've read a book that's, like, purely psychological like this. It's based on psychology and I'm actually really enjoying it. It's written in a discussion between a philosopher and a youth, a young person who's come in to, I guess, argue against the philosophy of this philosopher. So it's actually a really cool, cool read. I'm enjoying it. Yeah. I think you gave it to me in Madrid. Couldn't read it. Not readable. No, I wasn't. I wasn't focusing. But it is a book. What I'm saying is that you have to sit down with the book running and focus. Yeah. Oh, it's good. I can't read it while the kids are running around, that's for sure. But there might be a picture somewhere. Yeah. There might be a picture on social media where there's bob and I sitting on a train at like 630. No, 730 in the morning or something, reading a book each in silence. Did you make a photo of that? I did not. Who knows if someone else took the photo? Okay. Yeah. Who are these guys reading these books on the subway on our way to downtown Madrid to see some. It was to go to some park, wasn't it? That big park to the retiro. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I can't roll my eyes anymore since. Yeah, not anymore. Like you're. Like you're doing it here, right? Oh, man. In Spain, I was rolling my eyes like I had grown up there, but now I come back and I sound as australian as you can imagine. Australians speak Spanish. All right, that's the end. Thank you, Bob. Anything else you want to add before we. We drop? No, no, that's great. Thanks for listening. And if you have any questions or feedback, just reach out to us. This is a big step, big deal for us. Again, we have a big vision for this. And yeah, we're just really happy that because given almost to the certifications we were kind of skeptical about, but giving it a pie bytes twist to it, we're really happy how it came out and so it's super practical, so. Yeah, and not easy to get. You really have to do the work, you know. Yeah, exactly. So check out the links that we're going to include to the assessment to each of the individual certifications. We just, we'll have a bunch of links below. You can just indulge and enjoy and go from there. So hopefully we'll chat with you soon, but otherwise, Bob, thank you for recording with me and everyone. Thank you for listening. Pleasure as always. And next week we have a very special guest, so stay tuned and yeah, we'll be back next week. Awesome. All right, thanks, everyone. See you next time. Cheers. Bye. We hope you enjoyed this episode. To hear more from us, go to Pybuyte friends, that is Pybit es friends, and receive a free gift just for being a friend of the show. And to join our thriving community of python programmers, go to Pibytes community, that's pibit es community. We hope to see you there and catch you in the next episode.