If you go to the effort of immerse, like I said before, immersing yourself and trying to understand what it is that entails, that type of industry or whatever it is you want to do, doing that first, then going to the trouble of doing the course, it really solidifies what you have already researched sometimes and then highlights what you don't already know. Hello, and welcome to the Py Bytes podcast, where we talk about Python career and mindset. We're your hosts. I'm Julian Sequeira. And I am Bob Baldebos. If you're looking to improve your python, your career, and learn the mindset for success, this is the podcast for you. Let's get started. Welcome back to the Pibytes podcast. This is Julian. I'm here today having a chat with a very special friend of mine, Jacob Moyers. So I really want you to settle in and enjoy the conversation. Today, Jake and I are going to be talking about his unique journey. Jake currently works in cyber security. He's a competitive Olympic weightlifter, and he's a military veteran. The amazing thing about his story is that he's moved his career through the military, out of the military, into some engineering, and then has moved primarily through non tech type roles, but has landed himself in a tech position in cybersecurity. What's really special about that is the mindset that Jake has taken and the things that he's done are universal. And these are things that Bob and I constantly talk about on this podcast and with all of our clients. It's really, really amazing to see Jake's mindset, how he has pushed through so much, so much limitation and so many challenges to get the success that he has to the point where he's in a tech role after having an entire career of non tech, which I know is something a lot of people in our community want to do. And it's also helped him this reached number one to be number one ranked in the heavyweight Olympic weight lifter category in New South Wales, the state that we live in. He's actually. If we'd recorded this episode two weeks ago, he would have still been number one, but there was just a competition he didn't participate in and just. Just got knocked off his podium there. So that said, it's a wonderful conversation. Absolutely loved it. Had so much fun. So I hope you do, too. Please settle in. Enjoy the conversation. Here's my interview with Jake Moyers. Welcome back, everyone. I'm here with Jake Moyers, as per the introduction. Jake, how's it going. Welcome to the Piebus podcast. Thank you, Julian. Good to be here. Yeah. 1st. 1st time on the podcast or first time on any podcast. So. No, no, it's okay. Okay. I'm gonna make you nervous. No, that's cool. So look, I gave a bit of an introduction to everyone, which you haven't heard yet because I haven't recorded it yet at this time. Doing it backwards, but just for everyone listening. Do you want to introduce yourself? What are you up to these days? What is it that you do? Tell us a bit about yourself. Yep. So, Jacob Moyers, 36, currently work in cybersecurity, married, credit card number, I compete in weightlifting. So the one where you throw it above your head like that, you see in the Olympics. And prior to that I was working with yourself at Amazon or AWS in data centers, and prior to that in the military space working as a government contractor and in the military for about nine years. So. Yeah, yeah. Wow, that's. Those are the. Those are the big highlights, I guess. No, I love it. Okay, so everyone, the reason I've invited Jake here is because of exactly what he's just said. You can see that super detailed journey or that, you know, intricate journey that you've been on. So you. You're in the military. What were you working on in the military? Just remind me. It was helicopters, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I initially joined as a avionics technician. So someone that fixes anything that has a spark, electrical current or essentially a motor on the helicopter and instruments, things like that. So weapons systems, radar, flight control, computers, controls, things like that. Yeah, that was my trade, if you will. So you join up and that was my trade. And then I branched off and did various other roles whilst I was in there as well. Okay, so that, that technical aptitude that you had, that's what led you into AWS as a. Engineering was the role. Yeah, the role for that was data center operations engineer. So anything to do with power, cooling and anything for the building, basically the data center itself, there's a team that looks after the day to day running of that. So generators, air conditioners, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. Okay. And for all the listeners, as Jake mentioned, that's when we worked together because I was in a partner team to that when, as you all know, when I worked in the AWS starter center. So that's where Jake and I met and formed a friendship. And actually, side note, this is where I first got my inspiration to start my exercise journey. So you all know that Bob and I often talk about, you know, our workouts and the motivation to get back in and do it. It all came from Jake. He. For me, he was the one who said, he looked at me one day. You looked at me one day, Jake, and you said you could. You should work out. I reckon you. You'd be good at it. And then. Then you wrote me an entire two page workout schedule, which I still have, by the way, all these years later that I, you know, uses a placemat, my dinner table. No, I'm kidding. But it's still, you know, so that you kicked it all off, and I'm still going all these years later, which is good. But, yeah. So now what I wanted to really push on here is the mindset, right? Because so everyone, Jake, what you did was, to me, really inspiring. And this is why I wanted you to share your message, because one of the biggest pain points that people listening to this podcast and people that we work with, people in our community, is just having that one. The confidence to change careers completely, the confidence to chase something different and new, and the confidence in themselves, because there's a lot of imposter syndrome. Like, I'll never be good enough to do this. I'll never get there. And sometimes people have these grand ideas like, oh, I wish I could do this one day, or I wish I was that senior Python developer. I was the expert on my team that everyone talked to, and I wish I just knew things right. And I think you have personified that journey very well. And as I've been watching and listening and talking with you over the years, seeing what you've. How you've gotten there, I really want you to communicate that to the audience, to our listeners today, because everyone, Jake, went from that very hands on role, working on electricals and being on your feet all day for 12 hours a day into what. Where have you landed now? Yeah. So, at the moment in cybersecurity, the company I work for, DXC, we have a lot of government contracts, and we provide assistance to businesses and governments on how to securely operate their infrastructure. So if they want to have windows, what antivirus things they should put on there, what products, all those sorts of things. And we provide monthly reports to the customer. So it's a lot more of a customer facing role, I guess, would be a way to put it, and reporting on events that occur within their cyber environment. So if there's, like, hacks or ddos attacks and things like that, and I talked to the engineers about how they can remedy that or how what mitigation steps they put in. And. And that's sort of the. The current role, I guess. Yeah, yeah. With lots of, you know, different growth options from there as well. So I remember learning. You were learning some python. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very. I think it's important to at least get a very rudimentary knowledge of some things and then just try and specialize in something else around that. So understanding Python, like, I can't code, you know, but I understand the flow of. I can read something and I can get an interpretation of what's trying to happen here. Yeah, yeah. So when they. When the engineers show me something and they go, oh, look, this is what's going on. You go, okay, I can see that, you know, and then I can then also translate that to the customers. Yeah, that's cool. And python makes that easier to do as well. Yes, very. Yeah. But. Okay, so what I really. What I really want to point out here is that the role you were in before being very hands on, you had no experience in cybersecurity prior to this role. Right. So that jump, that's a massive jump to go from, you know, what is a very hands on, technical, electrical trade type role into that sort of corporate office environment. Very. You're on your laptop all day. You're. It's completely different form of communication, different technology stack, different skill set completely from what you were doing before. It's not something you ever researched or studied in, you know, years and years ago. Right. No, no, that's. That's right. Yeah. It was, um. Yeah, I'll go through how I sort of. Yeah. Where'd that. Yeah, yeah. I. I took a. I always had an interest in, I guess, clandestine, if you will, clandestine type movies. Or, like, one of my. One of my. One of my favorite movies. I talk about movies is the imitation game, and it's about, I don't know if you've seen that movie. And for anyone listening, watching, it's a really good, really good film about the cracking of the Enigma code. And that saw those. Those. Those movies and stories and things like that really sparked an interest in. In me once I started working around the data space at Amazon. And I thought, that's where I want to end up. That's where I want to. I really want to get there. I don't know what. I don't know what job I want to do with whilst in there. I don't know how I'm going to get there, but I just, I figured that's what I want to do. And I looked at what the skill set that I currently had. And I thought, okay, operational engineering experience. I have my security clearances from the military and my time in there, and I have a security mindset. Like, that's just something I had. I'm aware of things and practices and terminologies and stuff like that. And then I researched more, I researched more, and I immersed myself within that environment, not being a technical person. If I'd watch a movie about the Stuxnet. Stuxnet, the operation Olympic games where the Americans attacked the iranian, um, the iranian nuclear, nuclear power plant for. For their, for their nuclear weapons. They, they basically put a cyber bomb in there. Uh, and when I watched that documentary, I was pausing it every five minutes, and then I'd go and do a Google search and say, like, oh, what does that mean? Or what does this mean? And how does that link to the next thing? And how does that branch off what I already know? Okay, cool. That makes sense. So. And then I built up a knowledge. I looked up some courses, I completed a few of them, and I thought, okay, cool, now I'm going to also reach out to friends that I know. Okay, do you know anyone in cybersecurity? And luckily enough, I did. And I said, okay, this is my skill set. Is there anything. Let me know what comes up. And I was fortunate enough to get an interview, and then I fell in, was accepted, and I took on the role. And, yeah, it was a challenge because there's a lot of, um, a lot of products, a lot. A lot of, um, skills. I wasn't very good at Excel before, and now I am a master at it because there's a lot of data cutting, a lot of, uh. Um. But, but the things that were, that. The things that are. If you just have a mindset of, I'm going to find a way, and I don't care what's in my way to get there or what obstacles there are, I'm going to use every resource possible, and I'm going to get the job done. And even if that is asking other people or Google and searching or whatever it may be, you get the job done. And it takes a while. It takes a while. Like you mentioned, someone wants to be an expert. It takes time, and it takes. How would I put it? You need to be disagreeable with yourself. And what I mean by that is you need to disagree with your current mindset that. That what I currently know or what I'm currently doing is not good enough. It needs to be better. You need, like, actually stop reassessing. Go. No, I can actually do better here. I can actually go one more and. And one more 1% each day, obviously, is 365, right? So if you can do that each and every day, just on one thing doesn't have to be, you know, you don't have to learn how to, you know, do complex python coding or whatever. Whatever it may be, or building databases, etcetera. But just learning one extra little bit of information, and then over time, guaranteed, your people will start coming to you and asking questions, and you'll be that person. You'll be that knowledgeable person. Yeah. Oh, man. So I should have taken notes, but I've got a very loud. That's okay. No, that's just. There's so many things there that, you know, because you and I didn't prep for this at all. Right. And. No, there's. But every part of the process and the journey you've talked about is something that we constantly talk about on this podcast and also with our clients as we coach to get them through, because it's not easy. But one of the things I do want to really pull out here and just drill into people is that this wasn't done. And, excuse the language, this wasn't done half assed. Right? No, you immersed yourself into it, and that's. That's one of the things I want to call out here that is so commendable, because you weren't even in a tech job. You weren't, even, say, in a tech adjacent role where you're coding all day. Right? No, no. I I. Yeah, I would. I would watch you do your coding, or I'd watch other people. Or I would, um. I would just take an interest. Listen. Yeah. Take an interesting. Okay, how does that work? Oh, okay. And. And that sort of. But I definitely didn't. Yeah. We were, you know, spanners and. Yeah, yeah. If. If someone could develop, like, a drop down box in excel, it was like, oh, magic. You know, for our checklist, it was wizardry, you know? So. Yeah, so things like that indicate it was not a very. What would you call it? Computer heavy administration, strong role, I would say. Yeah. Yeah. So the thing that. One of the things that you mentioned that I. Or one of your processes that I really liked is that it wasn't just immersing yourself like you're talking about the movie and pausing and researching. Right. But you were taking inspiration from everywhere, and you were also connecting that interest with your current values and skills and talents to go. How is it that. How do the things that I know now translate into where I want to go, right? That's one thing we're constantly talking with people about. It's like, yeah, okay, you're a school teacher. You put yourself down and say, I'm only a school teacher. I'm like, but no, you're not only a school teacher. You have communication skills, you have organization skills, you have the ability to learn on the spot, to challenge people, to be challenged. And those are highly valuable satellite skills. If you break them up into little chunks and go, okay, those skills would actually be applicable in, say, a trading role, in a technical role in this and troubleshooting, so on and so forth. So I love that you were finding those and then piecing those together with what you're researching, going, oh, actually, based on this technology stack with cybersecurity, I have this interest, I have this ability with troubleshooting, with maintaining, fixing, learning, whatever, to challenge, to take on that challenge and actually succeed. So clearly you got the job. You haven't been fired yet. We haven't. Just check it. And it's been so cool hearing your stories about not what you've been working because you don't share that stuff, but just hearing about, oh, yeah, you got challenged by this or you had no idea what something was and you just had to sit there and learn it, you know? So that's, that's really cool. Now what I want to ask you about as well is that, what, other than just blanket research? Because people listening. Yeah, okay. It's well and good. He watched movies. He was inspired. He read Wikipedia. He read articles and websites. Did you do any sort of intentional formal learning for anything to get into this or was it all just scrapping stuff together? Yeah. Yeah, I did. I did a course through TAFE on like cybersecurity basics, which is for those listening is because got an international or it's like, I would say an institution primarily for trade and industry that is sort of, I don't want to say below university, but it's, it's, it's different. It's definitely more focused around trade and, and trade and industry type skills. And they offered that for free, which was pretty crazy. It was just a very, very basic level. And I finished that, learned lots, took notes all the whole way through and, yeah. So that was, that was a good way to, I find if you, if you, if you go to the effort of immerse, like I said before, immersing yourself and trying to understand what it is that entails, that type of industry or whatever it is you want to do, doing that first, then going to the trouble of doing the course, it really solidifies what you have already researched sometimes and then highlights what you don't already know. So I find that. I found that was a good strategy to implement. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's very applicable to what we do. Right. Because you don't know what you don't know, and you have to immerse yourself in it to find out. Oh, crap. I didn't know that technology existed or that I didn't even know about that entire function. So. Yeah, no, bri. Um, okay, so that, so that you did some Tafe courses. You did the TAFE course. Um, I remember you were doing some of our pie bites exercises. You were, um, again, throwing yourself into it. But then the last piece I want to mention before I move on to something else is, um, the, the networking piece. So I really want to emphasize that, that, that point, it wasn't just doing it by yourself. You then reached out to people to find out more information, to learn more. Yeah. What should you be doing? And then to that ultimate piece of going, well, help me find something. So, you know, do you have anything? What did that, what did that look like to you? And what sort of wisdom do you have on that? Yeah, it is. Networking is a very, how would I put it? Network and guidance seeking, I would say, is a very interesting concept. And I talk about this with, I talked about this with my wife the other day. It's. And we talk. We talked about how a lot of people want to do things on their own. They want to either start a business on their own or they want to. Whatever it may be, they feel a lot of. It appears, though, a lot of people feel like they need to do it by themselves to. And therefore, if they achieve it themselves, then the result is, I don't know, better, if you will. Whereas if you go to a coach, you go to a teacher, a person who's already a respected individual, the, in the industry, and they guide you there. They haven't done the work for you. It's not as though you've. And as long as though it's a two way thing where they're happy to teach you in an exchange of whatever it may be, a friendship or it might be, hey, look, I might be willing to pay you for these advices, whatever it may be. I find. Yeah. Seeking out individuals who are competent, who have achieved what. What you might want to achieve, all parts of that. It might be, you know, they might want to say, hey, just like I did with you, I want to learn a little bit of python. I don't need to learn the ins and outs and all that, but I just want to brush up on some skills. I'm going to learn the basics, etcetera. So doing that with people that were already in the industry and people that I was either friends or friends of friends knew, they did give me the time to do that. And it's a real, like putting your ego aside sort of exercise, I would say, because you need to be humbled. You need to sit and ask the questions and, and follow the advice and literally say to them, I want to do this, or this is, these are my goals, what should I do? And tick them off. One bang, bang, bang, next, one after the other, one after the other, one after the other. And if it doesn't work immediately, well, that's fine, that's okay. You've learned how to do these other things. There's always a learning within something, and then you just go on to the next person or the next course or the next whatever it may be, and then just keep repeating the process until you hit success. You know, it's never going to happen like that, and it's never unless you're very lucky. But as we say, luck is when opportunity meets preparedness. So if you're prepared, yeah, if you're prepared and the opportunity presents itself and you can make it work, then they consider that lucky. So that's my, I guess, spin on networking. Yeah. Dreaming of a tech career or getting more efficient with python, but feeling stuck in tutorial hell or overwhelmed by coding basics? Pivot's developer initialization, or PDI, is your launchpad. In just six weeks, our one on one coaching transforms you from novice to proficient Python developer. Don't just learn Python, master it and earn your pibytes developer associate certification. Apply now and kick start your tech journey with pibytes. Check out the link in the description below. Dude, I love it. That's so cool. And that luck piece, I've never heard it so eloquently put. I always say, well, you got to make your own luck, right? If you don't put yourself out there, if you don't go to events, if you don't reach out to people, if you don't pick up the phone when it rings, that's right, you're not going to get the good news on the other end, right? So, no, I'm totally with you on that. And, you know, to that, to your point, right. It's, I think people look at it as themselves that they're a pain. Like, if you. If I reach out to you and I say, hey, Jake, look, I know nothing about cyber security. Could you point me to a resource or even have a chat with me about how I would get started in this space just to do that? A lot of people might think, oh, I don't want to waste this time. I don't want to waste their time. I don't want to be a pain in the butt, you know, but I think one, people like to be thought of, and people like to be asked about their expertise. Yeah, they do. But also, you know, people, it's. People love to share and help other people. It's just how we're wired. We love to see other people grow and know that we're able to influence someone and make the world a better place, you know, that sort of thing. So I think there's a lot of fear around networking that people just don't want to be a pain or they're afraid of it. Did you experience any of that? Or is that something that you just are like, no, I'm okay with doing that. Um, I'm. I guess I. The fear I had, I would say one, one aspect. He's now my, geez, bosses, bosses boss, if you will. I said, I was sending him messages saying, like, really interested in cybersecurity on LinkedIn, you know, really for a career and all this sort of stuff. And I sent another one like a month later, and I thought, oh, gee, would I be coming off too keen? I was like, is that a. Is that possible? And I sort of, I reflected and I thought, well, you can't be, you know, it's hard to. It's hard to, I guess, put someone down for being too keen. Yeah, I think that's. So that. But that's what, that's the process. I thought he might be like, oh, well, am I bothering someone? Just like you said. But, you know, the more you get out there and the more you show up, the more they'll think of you and they'll remind. They'll be reminded. They'll say, well, how about that? You know, that person, they would just. They kept showing up, and they were here and they did everything I asked, and they're interested, you know, and they'll probably tell someone else because they've. If they're within the space that you want to be involved in and the opportunities don't work out for whatever, whatever reason, they're gonna know other people and they're gonna re room. They're gonna go, well, hey, that person was, like, really consistent. They. They always followed up with everything that I. That I mentioned. They were. They were even just bringing me news. Whatever it may be, they'll go, I might put their name to someone else. If someone else says, I'm looking for a good person. Yep. So. Yep. Oh, man, this is. This is great. This is so we should, like, a course or something. We totally should. And it's. It. This is wicked. I love it. Okay, now, so we talked about the mindset getting from a non tech, non tech to a tech role, right. One thing that I find super inspirational about you is that. And that you also reminded me is that that mindset of finding that success and making that success for yourself, it's applicable everywhere in your life. You can apply that to raising kids. Right? Kids might be frustrating sometimes, but I apply that mindset about learning about how to be a more effective dad or how to discipline without coming across as too aggressive or something. I can apply that same mindset you did. I can study, I can learn. I can talk to other people. Um, I can hire someone to come out and do it for me. No, I'm kidding. Um, but you can do that for so many different things now. I remember, and I actually keep thinking it was more recent than it was, but we were still working together when you told me, I want to start lifting weights. And as, as you said at the start, for everyone listening, these aren't weights, as in just, you know, curling dumbbells or anything like that. Yeah. Lifting up something that's like a couple of hundred kilos or whatever and lifting over his head and standing there and yelling and screaming. So. But when you told me that, I was like, hey, that's cool, nice. I didn't think about it. And then, well, you can tell everyone the journey, but I just remember when you told me more about it, I went, oh, oh, he's serious about it. Not just, I'm going to lift weights, I remember you saying something like, I'm going to be the best. Right? And there's almost that little bit of ego. You got to tell yourself, I'm going to. I'm going to do this. I'm going to be the bloody best at it. And now, however many years later, you can say that in a sec, you are the best in that class in this state, this entire state, the biggest populous state in Australia, right. New South Wales. So tell it. Tell everyone the story. I don't want to yap on. Yeah. So I always had an active gym regime, if you will, through the military and things like that. And. And growing up, played rugby league, so, yes, hit it. Hitting each other. And I, when I met my wife, we were dating at the time, and I went and did Crossfit classes with her because I just wanted something a bit different. Yeah. Just going to the gym, I guess I was a little bit lost or I wasn't feeling. I had the fire in my belly, basically, to do something. I was always strong. I could squat at that time, 180 kilos quite comfortably, which, for the international or. You have american people, don't you? Um, yeah. What's that? 2.2 1 second times 180. What do we got? About 400 pounds. Wow. Um, yeah. And that was for, you know, a couple of reps. So I had leg strength, um, but I wasn't fast. And to do weightlifting, you need to be fast. Anyway, she said, oh, you should try and do Olympic weightlifting. So I went to a coach. I, um. They assessed me when I first got there. Hang on, I'm going to cut you off for a sec because you. Yeah, you went from being so one. There's a networking piece, talking with people about it, about how you're feeling and you're. At that point, she wasn't your wife yet, but the lady you were seeing. Yeah. Okay. So when she told you to do Olympic weightlifting, what made you suddenly go, I'm going to talk to a coach, as opposed to, I'm just going to take a watch some YouTube video that tells me what to do, and I'm going to give this a crack in the local gym. Yeah, actually, I guess I did for a little bit, had a little crack in the gym, and then I thought I probably did that for maybe a month or so. And I. I did a lot of research online and things like that, and then. And a lot of the research was, get a coach, get a coach, get a coach, get a coach. And I thought I was like, okay, all right, looks like this is what we're doing. We're going to get a coach. So. Okay, keep going. Yeah. So I run around and I found one who was a very tough individual. He was the former australian head coach and had taken athletes to the 2004 Olympic games, among other competitions. And, yeah, he assessed me and pushed me quite hard. We ended up having a bit of a disagreement after a little while, and I. Which is not uncommon. It does happen a lot, a lot of the time with certain athletes and just coaching methods, same as teaching methods. You know, everyone's going to respond differently to certain motivations and things like that. And he had big hopes for me. I was on the older side. I was 31 or two at the time, which is quite like old if you're going to really drive for, I guess, an international or national career, if you will, so. But after that I found a new coach and did some more training and progressed as I was going through. As the years or months transpired, I just kept training and you just get better and better as you go and you need to be disagreeable with yourself. Like I said, you need to, you need to say, no, I'm going to do this. I'm, I'm going to not allow myself to be conquered by this, this weight or this nice poem, this type of exercise that I'm going, that I'm going to do. Yeah, I want to do this. And the issue with weightlifting is once you do that, then they just put an extra five kilos on and put an extra ten kilos on and it just keeps going and going and going, going. So it gets harder as you get better, almost. So, yeah, and I did a few competitions and then in the year earlier this year earlier in March, I did one and I, I got the clean and jerk state record and the total. So they add the two together, so they add the snatch, which is the one where it goes straight above your head and then there's the other one that goes here and then from here, then you go up like that. So there's two different. I was against a former professional rugby player and another guy. Yeah, he played, he played for Australia. He was very good. He's very strong, very good and he beat me in the snatch and I thought, like, well, you know, I've got a win or, you know, it was good friendly competition and it's good, but, yeah, he's very, very good, very good athlete and I had to be disagreeable and say, no, I'm going to do this and I'm going to win. And it took a record to beat him, basically, so, so, you know, so, yeah, and, and it put me in the number one for the, in the state for my weight category. Even being an older, older athlete, I'm still like a classified as a master, but I was still number one for quite some time. Yeah, a good ten months or so and, yeah, and I even this weekend I'm doing 240 kilo squat. So that's an extra 60 kilos from when I started. So, yeah, adding an extra. What's that, 140 pounds on top of? So, yeah, 545. 50 squat pounds, basically. Yeah, yeah, it's been a very hard journey. I've had to. You really need to listen to your coaches. You need to be, you need to give them information on how your body's responding to injuries because you get, you get a lot of them, especially the, the higher you go in terms of, I would say velocity, if you will, like in, in speed and frequency of training and all those sorts of things, the more chances there are of injury and you look at, look at a Formula one. I'm not comparing myself to a Formula one car, but if you look at a Formula one car, they're on the track for however long and then the rest of the time they're in the garage. And a lot of their breakdowns and things like that occur when they're, when they're going at max chickens, as I like to call it, when they're really pushing 100%, when they're really pushing that, that 100%, that's when, when you can get values and it's your job to talk with your coach to mitigate those as much as possible, do preventative things. So it's a, it's quite a rigorous task. Yeah. Of doing something that. But I threw myself at it. I said, I'm going to try and I'm going to try and be as best, be the best weightlifter that I can be. Doesn't matter. Like, doesn't matter who's, who's there or who's against me or whatever. That doesn't matter. As long as I'm getting better each and every day, then I'm happy. I love it. I still remember when you sent the article that was highlighting, which we're going to put in the notes to this episode. Oh, yeah, yeah. I've already got a paste. That was quite funny. I didn't even know on, on the. She rang me, the, um, secretary of, like, new South Wales weightlifting, she rang me on the morning and said, oh, we're going to put you in the newspaper. I was driving to the event and I'm, well, this is rather like, I was like, I haven't even lifted yet. I haven't, I haven't. What if I miss, you know, like, what are you going to put in the paper then? Like, oh, yeah. You know, man loses at weightlifting competition. Like, you know, there's motivation. They would. Yeah, like a bit. Yeah. A bit presumptuous. And, and I won that. I did win that competition and I had the, what would you call it? The last lift to win it again. So the guy was beating me in the snatch. I guess the gonna get better at snatches. So I don't put myself under that much pressure. But this, he was. He was beating me and he was the state champ. And then it came to the. The very end, and I. What would you call it? A clutch moment where I had to really get it. And then I managed to. And, yeah, that's crazy. I mean, yeah. When you think about these things as an outsider, I mean, I don't know the sport. I just know what you tell me. And you don't even think about that entire side of it. You send me all the highlights. You also. What I also appreciate, by the way, everyone, is that Jake sends me his sometimes when he achieves the lift, but also videos of the ten times he failed beforehand. Is your back okay? Looks like you cut that. You know, and so it's kind of. It's same, same. I'm going to relate this back to the python journey for a sec. It's like you always see the people who achieve and that they're on top, whether they build these amazing apps, they've done this, they've got these jobs, whatever, but you don't see the 10,000 lifts where they didn't quite make it to get there. Right. So. So many failures. So many. Yeah. Well, I mean, I love the. The persistence, the determination things that we're constantly saying. You can see how that path of, like, seeking a coach, learning, absorbing, trying that little 1% every single day, disagreeing with yourself. Also that you said, you know, they add an extra couple of kilos on or pounds on every. Every time. I'm like, that's what happens with coding. You get good at it, the next thing comes up, the next thing comes, you know? So I love that this is a similar sort of packaged mindset that you can apply to whatever it is you that you're doing. But one thing I want to highlight, which I think is really cool, is that you didn't let anything stop you from getting better at it. And I say this specifically because when you were right in the height of learning and doing this COVID hit in 2020 and you weren't allowed to go to the gym. So your creativity and the trouble you got yourself in is something that I will never forget. But before you get into it, I just want to say every. And, like, I want you to listen to this. Think about how just ridiculous this is, but also that it's inspiring and that when you get stuck and things around you are limited, things around you feel like they're trying to hold you back and that you're not going to get there, that you just got to be creative and just do what you have to do to hit that goal. So what did you do during COVID to keep this? Yeah. So I asked the coach if we could borrow some equipment, and he said, yep, yep, no problem. I'll give you, you know, a bar and some of the plates, the big circles that we put on. And I thought, okay, but I'm. What about, I'm gonna need to do squats, or I'm gonna need to do, like. I can't just do deadlifts off the ground with a bar or bicep curls. So I was like, okay, um, I'm gonna have to. And gym equipment also at that time was really expensive because everyone was fashioning out their home gyms. Like, so the price of secondhand gym equipment just went through the roof. So I thought, oh, I can't afford a quiver, but I don't want to afford that. Right? I want to spend money on other things, like rent and mortgage or whatever. So I went to bunnings, uh, which is, like, I think it's called lowe's in America. Yeah, home depot or something. Home depot, yeah, one of those places. I bought a couple of, uh. What would you like? Really big buckets. Really, like, you know, really big, really round. Uh, I bought them. I bought timber, cement, and I carved out the top and sawed it all out and sanded it, and I made a squat rack. So I put the notches in, and I waited for the cement to dry, and then I tested it, see how much it could. Could hold, and I got it up to around 200 kilos. And I thought, that's pretty good. And then I bought some mats as well. And I started training in the garage complex at the apartment, and that lasted for two months until the neighbors complained to the strata company because it was too noisy. So I thought, okay, all right, what else do I do now? So I put everything in the ute. I've got a. Like, a pickup truck ute. And you're translating this? Yeah, yeah, I'm trying. Yeah. And I. I would drive to a park every day and roll out my gym mat, roll out my squat racks, get everything set up, do my session, even in whatever conditions it was. There was a little bit of undercover area, and, um, then I. No one could complain then because there was no one out. And then I'd put it all back in the ute and then drive back home, and that was my session. That's what I had to do each and every day for the. For the lockdowns, man, that. That's, uh, that's ridiculous. And what, what did you, um. So you ended up. So one, you got, as you said, you got kicked out of the parking garage so you couldn't do it in there anymore. Um, but then you and your wife were working out in. It was like, or something in Sydney. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We. We would go and buy. I bought or I didn't buy. They'd give them away at a truck tire. Um, tire. Tire, um, tire shop, if you will. I just. I went up there with the ute one day and I said, hey, have you got any spare tires that I could have? And they're like, there's a whole pile over here. We don't work. So I grabbed the biggest one I could find, I wheeled it over to the ute and I flipped it in. And we would drive that to the park some days and we would just the flip it, both of us, for 2030 minutes, just lifting up something heavy and that's good for the soul and then putting it back down. And people thought we were quite strange because we were in this, like, it's a. It's a quite a picturesque walking area. Walking track with, you know, kids on bikes. And there's these two neanderthal people just like, flipping this tire. You know, old ladies walking past and. Yeah, I just thought it was something. Something very weird. But, you know, do it. Gyms with gyms were closed, you know, and you can't. Couldn't always have access to equipment. So, you know, do what you can. Do what you can with what you got. Yep. I love that, man. I love it. And I used to love those pictures, by the way, sort of things drew COVID. I loved getting from you pictures of you guys flipping tires in a park and. Yeah, yeah. Making stuff out of pallets and things like that. Yeah. Well, we found a street sign on the road. Like someone had knocked it over with a car. And I thought, oh, that'd make a good, like a good bar. So I picked it up and carried it home. No stopping sign. Like, yeah, it already be. It was knocked on the ground like it was. And it was out of the. With the big concrete bit at the end. So I just. And I got the angle grinder, I chopped it off and filled it full of sand and other things and turned it into a fitness bar of some kind that I could use. So. Because, yeah, well, you know, while equipment so expensive and if, like, you know, nature, if you will, is going to provide these things for me, I will take advantage. Fantastic. I love it, man. That's. That. That's inspiring to me because it's just everyone wants something that's just done for them, you know, and that. There's so many things that people throw into the it's too hard, just too hard basket. I don't have enough time. I don't. I don't have these resources. I don't have that. I don't. Yeah, you can make it work. You can do what you can. There's so much out there you can. You can do. Um. All right. I love it. And, you know, one thing, I. I've been holding my tongue because I thought I'd be pretty tacky, but, you know, I'm a tacky guy, so I'm going to do it. This is why you need python coaching, people. This is exactly it. You can do that first month like Jake did, of, you know, trying to do it yourself with YouTube videos and whatever, but once you get that coach, they're going to teach you what they learned through all the hard yards that they've been through. They can teach you the things that you otherwise wouldn't know unless you spent 20 years doing it yourself and they help you get that success. That's. That's something we're trying to change. Jake, in the python and tech space is that coaching isn't just for exercising and for singing and the arts and things like that. For those definitely trading type roles, these are. Coaching is something that you should invest in for anything that you want to succeed in. Right? So definitely, there's my pie bytes ad for the day. Make sure you like and subscribe. And anyway, all right, so we're going to wrap it up. I know we've been talking for a bit, but I love this, that mindset that you have. I'm not even going to recap it because we did so much and you did. You shed so much wisdom in this, everyone. You can just replay the damn episode if you want to catch it or if you haven't written it down. Any parting words, Jake, for people, about motivation? And, I mean, you've given so much, but, yeah, I'd say, like, motivation is always going to be temporary, and that's when discipline. Discipline will come in, disciplines its ugly, ugly cousin. And, yeah, you need to be disagreeable with yourself. Like, really. Are you honestly happy with the efforts that you're going to put in? And if that answer is no, and there's more in the tank, just give it more. And I want to add to that, if the answer is no, that doesn't mean give up. Yeah, that's right. If you decide it's really nothing, if it's something that's not for you, make sure you're making that decision based on data and not just based on you feeling like it's too hard and that you're giving up. Right. So if the answer is no, think about what you can do to keep going the next day after that and start small. Yeah. Anyway, I won't go into that. Any other things? Do you want people to find you? I'm okay. If that's a no. Would you just say LinkedIn? Um, yeah, I mean, I don't use it that often. Uh, I use Instagram, I guess. If you're okay with people who inspired by you reaching out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't post on. I don't post there often. Um, so. But, yeah, if they want to. Yeah. Cyber security. You can't find this. No, you can't. You can fire me if you look hard enough, but I'm just not that, uh, I don't. I just don't have a big presence on there, I guess. Yeah, that's right. I'll just put your mobile number in the. In the show. Yes. Thanks. Um, all right, well, look, Jake, thank you so much, everyone. Hope you enjoyed this. I did. As always. This is why we became friends, because this was, like, every lunchroom chat when we'd go and have lunch together for. For a couple of years. So, um, I really, really inspired by you, min, and just everything you do always just makes me go, yes, next. I would see what he's doing next. So thank you for. For all that you do and that you put out there. And I know people, we don't say these things enough, but I'm really grateful for the inspiration that you provided me as well over these years. So thanks, man. No problem. No problem. Do you enjoy this first podcast? Yeah, it's good. Yeah. Yeah, it was. Yeah. Interesting. A very different, like, just let it come and see what happens, I guess. That's what. That's what I was thinking. Yeah. Zero prep, people. Zero prep. Like, two minutes late for the recording as well, so there you go. Love it. Okay, man. Well, thank you for being here. Thank you, everyone, for listening, as always, and we'll be back next week. Cheers. Thank you. Bye. We hope you enjoyed this episode. To hear more from us, go to Pibyte friends, that is Pibit es friends, and receive a free gift just for being a friend of the show and to join our thriving slack community of python programmers go to Pibytes community. That's pibit es forward slash community. We hope to see you there and catch you in the next episode.