Nothing to Lose Mindset

CJ Stein 0:00

My mindset really was I had nothing to lose. The only thing I have to lose is maybe a little time and then saying no, because again, I try not to get disappointed, so I don't get too disappointed if they say no, it's mostly just time that I lose. And that's not a big deal to me, especially if I'm going for what I want. That's just an investment to me.

Julian Sequeira 0:20

Hello and welcome to the PyBytes podcast, where we talk about Python career and mindset. We're your hosts. I'm Julian Sequeira and I am Bob Beldebos.

CJ Stein 0:30

If you're looking to improve your Python, your career and learn the mindset for success, this is the podcast for you. Let's get started.

Julian Sequeira 0:40

Welcome back to the PyBytes podcast everyone. This is Julian. I'm here with another guest today, a special guest. I say it every time CJ Stein. Cj, welcome to the podcast.

CJ Stein 0:51

Oh, thanks for having me on. It's been a long time since I've talked to you, but I'm very excited to get back in touch.

Julian Sequeira 0:56

I know it's through your latest achievements that we were like man, we've got to get CJ on the podcast. So for everyone. So thank you for being here, first of all, and everyone listening and watching at home or in the car, wherever you happen to be. The reason I have CJ on the podcast today is, as you know, we love to highlight inspiring stories and just stories of people who push through and show some persistence and determination and reach their goal. Because we want to try and show you and those of you who might need that little push or that kick or that motivational hit, that these things are possible, right with a certain types of steps and things that that happen along the way.

Julian Sequeira 1:33

So cj recently has just landed his dream software developer job. He's excited, he's pumped, uh, and there's a lot of stuff that happened along the way that we want to talk about and share. So. So I'm not going to steal the thunder, but just hang around, listen to this one. It's a great story and CJ is just a cool bloke all around. So, cj, I'm going to hand it to you. Do you want to give a quick introduction? What you're about and where it all started?

CJ Stein 1:58

Yeah, so my name is CJ Stein. I'm actually originally from Montana. Believe it or not, it's a very desolate land. I got a degree in mechanical engineering and I was in manufacturing for a long time actually, and the most recent place I worked at I was a quality engineer, and the whole time about that time is around COVID. I joined PyBytes. I decided I was going to take my software engineering to a new level. I wanted to get into a role and I've been personally doing it a little bit here and there and learning it and enjoying it and I decided during COVID I was like I'm going to do something and I joined the PyBytes development mindset and that was probably the best thing I ever did. That's when I met you and met Bob. It was awesome and I think at that time it was pretty early on. There was only a small handful of us. I think you guys had just kind of kicked that off.

Julian Sequeira 2:54

Man, you were one of our first clients back in 2020.

CJ Stein 3:00

So yeah, I still remember those chats man. Yeah, I think when I joined there was only like maybe 10 people or so.

Julian Sequeira 3:07

Yeah, and the program's changed immensely since you were in it. You wouldn't recognize it, so you got the rough-as-guts experience and you still liked it.

CJ Stein 3:16

I got the what did you guys call it?

Julian Sequeira 3:18

the minimum viable product version of it the MVP version of EDM, exactly right the mvp version of edm, exactly right.

CJ Stein 3:28

Um, so during that time I was still doing, I was actually my my company had kind of transferred me to a different location and that's really what triggered me to say, hey, I gotta really start looking. Because I didn't want to drive really far. Luckily for me, my company actually moved me back to a place closer. So I was still doing the quality engineering, um, but again, I still really wanted to get into software because I just really enjoyed it. Um, and out of nowhere, um, my wife, knowing I wanted to get into this sort of thing, found a Facebook post from a local company. Um, that was like, hey, there's a software developer role and I I jumped on. I'm like I might as well do this. I've never done a software developer interview. Um, you guys helped me rewrite my resume. I quickly touched it back up and sent to my application and I was surprised, actually offered me an interview, um, which that was the first one. That was like local. I actually did apply to a few like Django uh positions, you know remote ones here and there, but knowing those, they're probably full of applicants and knowing my resume wasn't perfect, I didn't expect to get anything but this one. They wanted somebody local. It really seemed like they were very happy to find someone because I'm in a very small town, like they were very happy to find someone because I'm in a very small town. Um, and so it's very exciting to be like, wow, this small town actually has a software developer role that I was able to jump on, and that was pretty cool.

CJ Stein 4:52

Um, so the they asked me for an interview. Um, the interview I went in. Uh, specifically on the job description, it said it was actually a react role with uh, node, node js, back back end. And I went in and I was like I don't know anything about this and they're like, and, but I was trying to point out that I could learn. I, I know I can learn it. Um, I've already done it with python, I know that you know python and django. There's there something you can learn. And then the the syntax might be a little different, but the logic and the complexity and everything that I know how to do in python is there in in node and in react. I just have to figure out the right letters instead of to get it all to work.

CJ Stein 5:34

Yeah, so I went to the interview, said that I don't know how to do anything and they were like you're hired. No, they were like. They were like, oh, I'd went in and did a functional interview also and showed them I can look at the docs, I know how to read the docs and try to figure my way through it and they ended up hiring me, which was awesome. I've been there about a month now. The code base is like a legacy code base and half of it is actually still on the C Sharp backend that I'm supposed to be refactoring into the Node js back end, which is also even harder to read. So I'm figuring it out, but it's slow and it's. It's been fun, challenging, but definitely a change of pace for me, and I'm enjoying every minute of it.

Julian Sequeira 6:17

That's awesome, man. Is there any room for python in the day job?

CJ Stein 6:20

uh, they did say that we have some like etl jobs, um, where we're taking data from some of the sensors we have across the plant, um, and it's putting into a database. So they, those are also in the part of the c-sharp. So what they had before was a big giant c-sharp like mega code base with all of this stuff in it the back end, the front end, it was before and and all these etl jobs and they want to transfer them into their own kind of separate entities and the, the etl jobs. And they want to transfer them into their own kind of separate entities and the, the etl jobs. I can do with python. They said, if, if, I want to get to that.

CJ Stein 6:51

So that's one thing I'm going to try to convince them we should go to django because I'm the only, I'm the only software developer. So I think once I get a little, you know, business capital, I can say, hey, we should switch to this because I think it's better for this and that reason, if it makes sense. So I gotta you know, I being new to react and no JS, it's it's easy to be be like, oh, the one thing I know is the best thing, but I know that's not true. So I gotta make sure I know that what I'm saying is right, but right now that's cool.

Julian Sequeira 7:21

Yeah, that's a good mindset to have, right? I mean, you hear it all the time that software developers come into roles, they have their area of expertise and then they just force that on everyone else. And well, the previous person did it this way, yeah, but this is the best way to do it, and then, when they leave, the next person says the same thing. So it just leads to all these issues. But so I think that's really cool that you're looking at it through that, uh, through that lens. So, look, there's, there's a lot there that you mentioned, and I want to go back a little bit.

Julian Sequeira 7:49

Right, so you finished pdm and you still always dreamed of this kind of position, right, local, um, you know, and just with python. But allowing you to become an actual software developer was the goal. So how did that evolve over the years? Because now we're talking quite a few years later? Right, but what were you doing throughout those years? What are some of the? What were you building? Anything, you know what? What did the job hunt look like for you throughout that time?

CJ Stein 8:22

Yeah, actually, you know, with PDM again, I don't know what it looks like you mentioned, it's changed completely. But I, you know, we, when I was in there, we had a project that we were working on the MVP yeah, and I took mine and I actually like worked on it. I left it private for a while, but after a year or two of keeping on building it, I decided I was just going to and release it as like open source so I at least could have something to point to and said, hey, look at all this stuff I've done and learned and made Um. Actually, on top of that, for the job that I was in, I was using Python to create um. We were a manufacturing company.

CJ Stein 8:58

So um in manufacturing there's, you know, uh, it's called SBC or statistical process control, and what it does is you take measurements and everything from your parts and you create, basically, you look at the statistics of it, like all of the, the mean, the median, the standard deviation, and you're able to create what are called control charts. And so I was able to automate that with our measurement system, pulling it from the api, and create charts automatically, which our company thought was really cool. Being able to do that was awesome, because then I had another thing I could point to and say hey, look at this other thing that is kind of completely different than my Django app that I can do, and so it just kind of I think it just helped show that you know, if you keep building, you keep learning, that you have some cool things you can show for it and some things that are make you valuable.

Julian Sequeira 9:48

Basically, that's cool. So you kept building up those skills. It wasn't just through learning, it wasn't just through reading, but it was actually building some cool, impactful stuff. Yeah, that's really awesome. I actually didn't know that part that you were building that. So that's very, very cool yeah that was a fairly recent thing.

CJ Stein 10:05

The one thing I will say is, yeah, it's hard to get out of that. We talked about a lot when I was in PDM, but getting out of the tutorial cycle and to me that's the biggest thing was just building something that helps you or someone else, and so that that's what I kind of took to heart, and now I even make just little scripts that make my life easier. But those are some bigger projects that were like this is awesome, I can build this and somebody else really appreciates it. And actually the other biggest thing I was making it so that other people can use it too. That was another thing that was a big barrier for me. That was like trying to make it so I can share it with people and they could use it yeah, making it scalable to that extent that it's now everyone almost has their unique instance or profile.

Julian Sequeira 10:47

That makes it their own. That adds a whole level of complexity, but it's cool that you did that and figured it out. So how did so? Okay, so there's the learning piece. Right, you were constantly building, staying fresh, creating stuff. How did that influence the job search? Because you said your partner found this specific role, but you were also applying along the way, so there would have been. Obviously, you mentioned there were roles you applied for that you didn't land. Um, so how did you handle all of that? How did this learning influence applying and and so on?

CJ Stein 11:24

um, I think the main thing for me was I just don't, I try not to let myself down because I know that it's, you know, those decisions when I apply to something aren't really my decisions, are kind of out of my control at that point. So I try not to let you know. I've kind of been like leaning into stoicism, where it's like you can't control everything and you shouldn't worry too much about the things you can't control, and so that's where I've been. You know, I'll apply, I'll see something and I'll do my best apply it, but that's all I can do.

CJ Stein 11:52

So I have to just, you know, either hope and not get my hopes up too high, but hope and don't expect anything, because that's that just sets you up for disappointment. So so, yeah, I would, I wouldn't hope too much, I would try my hardest to get it, but then I would, you know, wouldn't be too upset if I didn't, because I knew, I knew I was kind of stretching in a sense. So I knew I would be a hard sell and I knew I'd sell, sell myself, but, um, in the end it was like eventually it worked out in a way that probably was better than getting the role I, you know getting a remote role and not being able to be around people and not being local in my community.

Julian Sequeira 12:29

Yeah, yeah, that's true. I mean, look, it's always in hindsight that we have these conversations, and then people look back on the years of effort and they go. Well, yeah, look, every single, every single hurdle, every disappointment, every frustration, every declination was just a stepping stone to get me to where I am today. Right, because one declination may result in you learning something new. Right, you may go. Well, you know what. I was declined because of this, so I need to pick up this skill. And had you not been declined, you wouldn't have picked up that extra skill or, in some cases, realized what was meaningful to you, right? So, for you, like you just said, it was meaningful to you to have that in-person connection, be close to home. And now, because you were patient, persistent, you know, you got there, which is pretty cool.

CJ Stein 13:23

Yeah, the one thing I will mention is the job I had before. It's like I didn't hate it or anything, so that really helps when you're. You know, I was okay with where I was at and of course I wanted more and just wanted to strive for more and do something better, but at least I I wasn't like desperate, and that that helped me too was just to know, you know, if I don doing but you know I will argue that for a second.

Julian Sequeira 13:53

That doesn't mean it's easy to fall into procrastination and just not chase the goal. It does. Yeah, because if you don't have the pain going, oh man, I hate this place. I'm not saying you need that, but that's definitely a great motivator to get in there and do five days a week of job hunting, right. So there is something to say about your character that you kept going even though you're pretty happy in what you were doing right before that. So that's pretty cool. I'm happy to hear that, that you kept that persistence up. So you, how active were you in looking for roles then? Because you were happy. Obviously, this wasn't a nine to five job hunt every day like some people should be doing if they're out of roles, but what was it looking like for you? Um?

CJ Stein 14:40

for me it was probably about I'd probably say I was looking like once a month I'd just go see what, what we're on like the job boards, and then I probably apply to one every other month or so just to see you know how it went or everything, but so it wasn't super active, yeah, until I found the one that was local.

Julian Sequeira 14:59

That's okay. I mean, everyone's different right With their needs, so I think that's that's pretty. It's a nice balance to the usual story that we hear and talk about where people are applying again five days a week, making the application process a full-time job. So it's nice to hear that. Yeah, even if you're casual about it, again, just being persistent and consistent will help you get there. I do want to go back to you were talking about about stoicism, and we're pretty big on that in Pie Bites right, we even had before we moved across to Circle. In the Circle community, I remember we used to use Slack and there was we actually had a Slack bot sharing the daily stoic.

CJ Stein 15:42

Oh, yeah, I was going to mention. Yeah, that's like a book I've been getting back into and I was trying to remember if that was from you guys or not. But yeah, I was into it. But yeah, I've actually been getting back into that every day because I I have the book, so I buy, I read it. You know, every day, the oh, that's the daily one the daily stoic.

Julian Sequeira 15:59

I should do that. It's it's not. You know, the problem is it's on my kindle, so it's easy to not physically see it there on my bookshelf. So I but I should read it again. I used to love it and they're, you know, with all the Marcus Aurelius quotes and stuff in there, you can't remember anything. Yeah, they're all written in such obscure old English It'd be like reading it all over again. So I'll definitely definitely pick that up after this. Throw it on the book right next to my bed. I think, yeah, I'll definitely pick that up after this. Throw it on the book right next to my bed. I think, okay.

Julian Sequeira 16:30

So one of the things I want to talk about here is that you wanted a software developer role and when you looked at the job description of the role that you currently have and you saw that you don't tick the box for everything on there, but you have this kind of oh, I knocked my microphone, but you have this adjacent kind of skillset that can be applied to it, but it isn't explicitly what's on that job ad, and I think everyone knows where I'm going with this right. What made you go I'm still going to go for it and what gave you the confidence to kind of say, I don't. Like you even said in the interview, I don't have these skills, but here I am anyway, so talk what went through your mind with?

CJ Stein 17:14

that I'd say probably two things I I really like to learn and I think people can get that out of me, they know that when they run into me and two, it's like my mindset really really was I had nothing to lose, like one of the only thing I have to lose is maybe a little time and and then saying no, because, again, I try not to get disappointed, so I don't get too disappointed if they say no, it's mostly just time that I lose and that's not a big deal to me if, especially if, I'm going for what I want.

CJ Stein 17:42

That's just an investment to me. And so you had to try to check all those boxes as hard. Um, and that was like the things I would do is look, would look at the job descriptions that I was applying for and be like, well, you know, they require these things. There's usually, usually a section that's like we require these things and we prefer these things, and so I try to aim for, you know, trying to show on my resume that I have those things and if I don't have it on my resume, figuring out how I can get to a point where I do understand those and get them.

Julian Sequeira 18:11

So then I do check the boxes, even though I don't have a typical, you know, software developer background or schooling, or whatever you want to call it that's cool because it shows that being able to talk over your skill set and your projects, even being able to talk to it, being able to explain your decisions, it does show a language agnostic skill set, you know. So it doesn't matter if the code you're talking over is Python or React or whatever. Being able to talk about why you chose those things and show, as you said, that you can read the documentation and make heads and tails of these concepts, because looping is looping. You know functions of functions, that kind of stuff is the same everywhere you go right. So did that give you the confidence you know, knowing that you could do that? Did you feel confident in the interview as you talked about that?

CJ Stein 19:07

I did. Yeah, and yeah, like I said, I love learning. So it's like, and I think at least companies around here seem to be more wanting to hire people that can learn versus people that are set in their ways. So I don't know if that was an influence on you know why they hired me, but knowing that I could learn and, like you said, I can learn because the logic is the same, it's just the, the letters that are on the, on the bits that are different. So, yeah, that's cool.

Julian Sequeira 19:37

I like that. So the the other piece of this is that the company itself uh, what, forgive me, what do they do? The, the company that you're now working for.

CJ Stein 19:47

Uh, they process milk into cheese.

Julian Sequeira 19:53

That's awesome. So going through for those of you not watching, having a bit of a coughing fit off off microphone, I think I inhaled some coffee the wrong way, so okay. So that that is not your typical IT tech company, right? So something that comes to mind to me for this job hunt and for the people out there listening and in the industry there are developer roles everywhere. Just, you know, set your expectations straight. Stop assuming that the only companies you can get jobs at are FANG companies, that they're, you know, the biggest tech startups on the planet. It's just not true.

Julian Sequeira 20:38

There are developer jobs in the back end of retail stores, of retail chains, whatever you want to call them of. As you said, turning milk into cheese, manufacturing, farm, agriculture, you name it right. There are jobs everywhere and you just have to be open to looking for them and finding them. You know some of the best, for example, network engineers and developers. I know work for companies you wouldn't even have heard of or thought of. You know subsidiaries of larger companies or, again, retail chains and things like that.

Introduction to CJ Stein

Julian Sequeira 21:12

So to me, this is one of those lessons and reminders that you don't have to be looking at just Amazon, microsoft, you know Oracle, google all of them. You don't have to just be looking at them for your jobs. It's like going into page six of the Google search results, right? Even the obscure companies have roles and they're hungry for talented people, who are hungry to learn and grow with them, as opposed to coming in and knowing everything and you just have to find them right. So your patience and persistence paid off in that suddenly, this role, which was definitely wasn't available when you started your journey here with python and software development it wasn't there, but you kept learning, so you were ready for it when it was there yeah, that's.

CJ Stein 22:00

Yeah, it was exciting. It was. It was weird to be like go to this milk company and be like, hey, you're looking for a job. I was in manufacturing before and I think I can transfer some of those skills as well as my software developer skills. So yeah, it was.

Julian Sequeira 22:16

It was a weird journey, for sure and when you showed me the office building on google maps, it's. It's not like some corporate hub center with 20 stories on the building. You know it doesn't matter.

CJ Stein 22:30

No, it's a big yellow building with a bunch of silos for milk.

Julian Sequeira 22:36

I love it, man, it's cool and this is. I hope this is like a, not a wake up call, but just a reminder for people that again, anything can happen at any time and it's about not giving up taking the opportunities, having the confidence to apply and try and getting out of that imposter syndrome of I don't check every box on that job description. I think that's the biggest pitfall that people find themselves in. They go I don't tick every box, so I'm not even going to bother applying and you just never know. Right, you might be the person with the attitude and the confidence and the willingness to learn.

Julian Sequeira 23:14

In your case, that just stomps the competition. And you know again, people shotgun apply to thousands of roles at a time using software and whatever else. So half of the applications that are coming in are probably just bogus anyway. So you just got to get in there and back yourself. So the other thing you mentioned I just took a note of it was you mentioned you have a hope, but you set your expectations that you likely won't get it. Is that right?

CJ Stein 23:46

Yeah, I mean, I do that in life a lot, as bad as that sounds. But yeah, especially with this is like to me, it's just, it's another test where I'm going to learn something. So, yeah, yeah, I'm more excited to learn something. Like I said, I like to learn. So it's like I, if I don't get it, I at least hope I get feedback into you know, what was it that didn't get me? You don't get that a lot, but sometimes you do, especially if you get go to an interview. You can even self evaluate yourself Like what could I have done better? What could, what could be better about my resume? What, what do I need to learn to look better for my next you know, application or interview that I can put on my resume. So it's to me it is more of an opportunity of learning and I know, you know I don't expect to get it, because that would be. Life would be too easy if it was like that that is.

Julian Sequeira 24:32

That is a a nice way of looking at it. It's different to me, man. I, when I look at this stuff, I'm like all in hope, in visualize everything, put the energy out there that it's mine, I've got it, and but then I think I'm also aware that in those chant, in those times when I don't get it or things don't go the way that I wanted or thought, I'm not the kind of person who will beat myself up and wallow in disappointment. Right, I'll sit there and be like, okay, well, what's next? All right, what? What didn't work, what did work, let's move on to the next thing.

Julian Sequeira 25:09

So, very similar. I appreciate that. Um. So I guess the next question for me I know we're we're getting close to the end of this time slot, but what is it for anyone that is applying for jobs right now? Because it's a pretty tricky job industry out there, especially in the developer world and IT sector, and we all know that. But what is your advice? What is it that you would tell people who are in your shoes from a month ago, looking for jobs? What?

CJ Stein 25:45

would you tell them, um, I'd say that we probably, you know, don't, don't beat yourself up, um, and just keep trying. And you know, yeah, I don't really know what to say to them because I got lucky. Look, you got to create your own luck.

Julian Sequeira 26:05

I will never let someone say I'm just lucky, no, because there was a mountain of things below that lucky break that led to you being able to do that. I'm going to coach you on this CJ. It's like five years ago. No, no, no, no, no. You made your own luck right. You clearly set expectations for people. I mean, look, no, no, no, you made your own luck right. You clearly set expectations for people. I mean, look, I'll even say this You've clearly communicated with your partner about your dream and what you're chasing, because she's the one who knew enough about what you're after to find that job and say, hey, this is exactly what you're after.

Julian Sequeira 26:38

And that may be a very localized, in your same house version of of networking, but it's the same concept as getting out there on your network and telling the people in your life around you, your professional contacts here is what I'm after. Think of me when you see things and and you hear things along the way. So you weren't lucky, buddy, you, you, you planted a lot of these seeds and you kept skilling up. Um, but I appreciate it. You know your advice is just don't give up, right.

CJ Stein 27:06

Just keep going and I'd say keep building. That's like that's what I did between between PDM and and when I got the job. It was just building, building, building. Because you practice. It's two things you practice and you get something to show for it.

Julian Sequeira 27:19

You can show people it, you have more evidence of why you're valuable to somebody and you know what. I just had a thought that's. That's a with the building thing. So when you first started pdm and you were building your app right and then you also talked about in your job interview you were, you showed that you could read the docs right, you could peruse documentation. These days, as we all know, AI is right there. It's kind of crazy to think that when we first when I we were doing this, yeah, yeah there was no AI.

Julian Sequeira 27:53

There was no chat GPT. We didn't have that. So now that that stuff exists, Bob and I the podcast episode that'll come out before this, one, which hasn't released just yet we talk about AI and how, as developers, it can really lead to some illiteracy with being a software developer. So you obviously kept reading the docs and you kept learning and you kept looking through those, preparing for this job interview, even though you had chat, gpt or co-pilot or whatever sitting right there ready to go. How did you like? What led to that? What's the balance?

CJ Stein 28:31

well one I like again, I like to learn. So it's always to me it's always like I'm expanding my knowledge and getting new views of things. And, like I said, I don't know react that much and I don't know, you don't know js that much, but and I want to say no, we don't want to use. I said, I don't know react that much and I don't know, you don't know js that much, but and I want to say no, we don't want to use that because I don't know it. But at the same time, I want to learn it, because if I don't know what, I can't be sure of what the right thing is. That's just a bad mindset to have.

CJ Stein 28:53

I think so to me. I just like to learn and that's why I want to learn it. And you know, ai, I can see where it'll be easy to be like, hey, I need this thing done, just do it for me and get an answer and put that in right, and you won't learn anything. To me, I think you need to know why things happen and why they work, and that's why, to me, reading the docs and understanding helps, because that also shows. Then I can spend my time on thinking about the complexity of it, because I don't think AI is quite there yet, of like. You have a big system, sure, you can tell it to make me a function that does this, but thinking how all the functions work together is really where I think it's important to know, because you have to think like that.

Julian Sequeira 29:35

I like that, that's that's really cool.

Julian Sequeira 29:37

So I recorded this episode with Bob two nights ago and we talk about this exact same kind of thing. Right, like the AI will only tell you so much. It will answer your explicit question. It doesn't understand some. I mean, you can give it huge prompts but still there is stuff that's missed and, more importantly, you're not learning right To learn from it. You have to tell it to teach you, and when it's just spitting out code, as opposed to you trawling through documents, reading each module or function or whatever method to go, what does what and what would work, and then experimenting and playing, that's where the real learning comes in, right. So there is a balance to be had with that. Also, I like when you know me personally, when I read the documentation, you get the full contents down the left. So while you are reading one specific piece that a Google search result gave you, you also see other headers for that library or whatever that you're like oh, it can do that too. Oh, yeah, I need to check that. And with AI, I feel there's this laser focus, as you said, it doesn't know about everything else, or it doesn't tell you about everything else intrinsically. So, yeah, anyway, I'd rather have a conversation with a person, because they'll tell me all this experience, as opposed to just learning from an AI right where you get the hyper-focused thing. So, no, that's cool. I appreciate that. That's valuable insight, I think. Think for everyone is that, yeah, there is still a lot of value in reading the docs and doing things like that the old manual way. Yeah, all right, so look, we're at the end.

Julian Sequeira 31:15

I think it's, first of all, congratulations again on landing the gig man. It's I know it's been a couple of years and the pressure wasn't there and everything that some people face, but the journey was the same, man. You tried, you failed, you got back up and you kept going. And, as I constantly tell our clients and community, it's the people who just don't give up that are the ones that get the job right, the people who follow the same steps networking, networking, applying, chasing up, uh, that sort of stuff. They're the ones who get the roles and the positions and you just got to keep going, doesn't matter how long it takes, um. So I think it's very cool and inspirational that you did that after all these years and and landed the job. Man, how long is the drive to get you to work now?

CJ Stein 31:58

uh, it's like three minutes now instead of. My last job was 20 minutes, or else when I was at the other facility it was like an hour.

Julian Sequeira 32:08

I remember your commute used to be over an hour when you were in PDM, so that's crazy man. I love it. This is awesome. Okay, any advice for anyone? Any tips, anything you want to share before we go? Anything else?

CJ Stein 32:24

I don't think anything new that I haven't said. Just keep having fun and keep learning and keep building.

Julian Sequeira 32:30

Cool, that was your chance to say sign up for PDM, oh yeah, but you know that's cool.

CJ Stein 32:35

Opportunity lost. Thank you, CJ. Thank you for nothing, buddy.

Julian Sequeira 32:39

Yeah, really talk to Bob instead. Yeah, nothing, buddy. Yeah, really talk to bob instead. Yeah, I'm just kidding. Yeah, talk to bob, don't talk to julian. All right, that's, that suits me. Fine, I didn't want to talk to you anyway. No, look, it's. It was wonderful to have you on the podcast. Um, if people want to follow you and meet you, say hi, say congratulations, where can they find you other than our circle community?

CJ Stein 33:02

actually that's not the only place I am. I don't really maybe linkedin, I guess I don't. I don't really go on social media like at all anymore, so believe it or not?

Julian Sequeira 33:09

no, I I'm believing that more and more these days.

CJ Stein 33:12

Yeah, I guess linkedin, but I don't really okay well, there you go, everyone.

Julian Sequeira 33:18

There's a reason to join our community again. We say it all the time. And, uh, come and say hi to CJ. There is a dedicated post in there that he shared this win of getting the jobs. Come and show him some love and say congratulations. He'd love to connect and network as well. But, yeah, and CJ, just quickly. So you said you started all of this journey in Montana and where are you now? Minnesota, minnesota, okay, that's it. I love these, these, these names. They're all from TV for me, all right. Well, cj, it was a pleasure chatting with you, as always. Thank you for joining me. Any, any departing words.

CJ Stein 33:55

No thanks for joining me or thanks for having me on here. It's been so much fun and it's been a while since we've talked, but I'm glad we got to catch up again.

Julian Sequeira 34:02

Hope we can keep it up, definitely. Well, we know we've got the community now, so we can definitely do it through that, but I appreciate you joining, sharing some wisdom and your story and, hopefully, everyone listening and watching. There's been some inspiration in there for you, some motivation. That's why we do it. And please, you know, come check us out, look, please, come check us out. Look at the community. The links are all below. Check out all the links. I think there should be about 10 links for you to click on and look at in the show notes about our coaching, about everything like that. We'd love to have you Again.

Julian Sequeira 34:32

Traditional learning methods, reading books, watching videos, using AI. There will be a limit that you reach. You'll hit the roof and you'll eventually go. I need someone to help me hit that next stage and that's what pybites is for with our coaching. So thank you, cj. Everyone, thank you for joining. We will catch up next week. Bye, hey, everyone.

Julian Sequeira 34:54

Thanks for tuning into the pybites podcast. I really hope you enjoyed it. A quick message from me and bob before you go to get the most out of your experience with PyBytes, including learning more Python, engaging with other developers, learning about our guests, discussing these podcast episodes and much, much more. Please join our community at pybytescircleso. The link is on the screen if you're watching this on YouTube and it's in the show notes for everyone else. The link is on the screen if you're watching this on YouTube and it's in the show notes for everyone else. When you join, make sure you introduce yourself, engage with myself and Bob and the many other developers in the community. It's one of the greatest things you can do to expand your knowledge and reach and network as a Python developer. We'll see you in the next episode and we will see you in the community.