Julian: 0:00

I was working on stuff that had never been done before. You know, within the realms of the data centers and what I was tasked with doing, and that's fine, but it also meant I had no one to give me any feedback. I had no one that had the security clearance or the permissions to look at my code and the stack that I was working on, and I found it really challenging to code by myself like that. And you know, contrasting that, working with you on the 100 days of code and building PyBytes and writing blog posts and learning Python the difference in energy was night and day. Hello and welcome to the PyBytes podcast, where we talk about Python, career and mindset. We're your hosts. I'm Julian Sequeira.

Bob: 0:45

And I am Bob Beldebus. If you're looking to improve your Python, career and mindset, we're your hosts. I'm Julian Sequeira and I am Bob Veldables. If you're looking to improve your Python, your career and learn the mindset for success, this is the podcast for you. Let's get started. Hello, and welcome back everybody to the PyBytes podcast.

Julian: 1:02

This is Bob, and I'm here with Julian Sequeira how you going, man?

Bob: 1:04

yeah, good man, like busy, as usual. There's a lot going on, um. So, yeah, we'll, we'll have just a short, relatively short, episode this week for you, and then we have some exciting guests as well.

Julian: 1:17

Uh, hopping on soon so at the end of this week you're recording that one. That's a good one, but, um, this is not a chore. I'll just say that this is a highlight of the day. I was so excited to get together and record. So we haven't recorded an episode in about two weeks um, maybe a week and a half, but our uh editor was on a much needed and well-deserved break, so we thought we'll take a break from recording too and, uh, now that she's back, we got to get back to work so happy that she.

Bob: 1:46

She was right, because she does an amazing job with the editing these episodes. So when she said, like I'm on break, I guess, yes, go, yep take the break, enjoy it.

Julian: 1:55

So a huge shout out to christy for that. She's um absolutely fantastic at what she does and we're so so lucky to have found her and have her um working on the podcast with us. So, um, as we jump into the episode today, quick wins, bob, what do you, what do you got?

Bob: 2:10

uh, I started working on a uv course because one uv is awesome. I think everybody should use it. I've never looked back. Um, I did a poll and only half of the people are using it, so there's still a lot of potential for people to get on that boat. And yeah, I think generally we agreed to do some more course as well. So it will be relatively short, like one or two hours, I think two hours and really 80-20,. Right, like, get people up to speed and given the important things you need to know for them to adopt the tool fast, no pun.

Julian: 2:50

So, yeah, if you didn't read between the lines, yes, that means we've got a whole suite of courses coming out, so you want to make sure you're subscribed on the email list in our community, whatever to hear about all of these as they come out, because we have plenty in the pipeline and we're pretty excited. These are going to be really, really targeted, usable, specific niche courses that will help you out, as opposed to just some blanket. Here's how you learn Python. You know so very excited.

Bob: 3:22

Yep, very practical and yeah, I had another win as well. But uh, for the sake of time, you can't even do yours, yeah okay, well, quick, quick win.

Julian: 3:31

For me, everyone is just that our community is is growing and booming, and I'm really excited. We've been making lots of little changes to it, um, fine-tuning it. You know, we're doing it live because that's just how we work. We're working in production, but it's super nice to see energy, people posting, people sharing, commenting. We had this great thread the other day about what got people into tech, what was their first introduction into tech, and we'll talk about that on another podcast episode, because we really want to share some of those stories anonymously, because they were just really inspiring and told us some good messages. So, but yeah, the community is looking good. There's going to be events coming up. We just launched our first code challenge in five years, something like that. So we actually have a community code challenge. So if you want to actually code with other people and solve a cool problem and build something interesting and share it with people, come and join in that community. So, without further ado, though, we have to get to the topic of the day, and it was a nice segue actually talking about the community.

Julian: 4:37

What Bob and I want to talk about today was how much it can suck to code alone. It's coding in a silo. We know we've mentioned that before and people have heard that term before, but the impact that it really has on you, the mindset, the um, I don't know just the the stress that you can go through by coding by yourself is is a lot and it's it's taxing and it can make you not want to code anymore and it can make you feel like you don't know anything and, uh, uh, just make you feel like you're on this island and you're stuck. So we've both experienced this. We've experienced both sides of the fence where you you've been in that situation, but then also where you haven't been. So, bob, do you want to kick this off with maybe your story or your experience when you were, um, I guess, maybe maybe an Oracle? Was that your story?

Bob: 5:31

I think so. Yeah, I definitely have been coding there kind of in a silo for years as well as making websites and stuff, and you don't really have that validation or code reviewing experience, so you're not really sure if what you're doing is correct, right. So you're not really sure if what you're doing is correct, right. So then later I got into a software team and I got regular code reviews and people that were working on the same things and were way better than me, so I started to grow much faster, right. So, yeah, it made a fundamental difference. Yeah, just to get that feedback, feedback validation and just brainstorm things right.

Julian: 6:08

um so yeah, but so the question for you then. I'm interviewing you now as a guest. Uh, so you say that validation right, and we know what that looks like in hindsight. That looks like people checking over your code, giving you, you feedback, but was that something that you knew, that you were missing before you joined that team? Is that something you felt?

Bob: 6:31

Yeah, because I think you just don't know what you don't know right, so you don't really have, basically you're not sure if you're doing it the right way, right when you are with your skills, right In a professional setting.

Julian: 6:45

So I think, yeah, that that was definitely true, and kind of one of the impacts I remember feeling when I was in that situation was very much that it kind of slows you down because you, you're kind of reluctant to push the code, you're kind of reluctant to continue because, well, you don't even know if you're kind of reluctant to continue because, well, you don't even know if what you're doing is feasible, if it's correct, if it's going to cause problems and it can just really be a motivational hit Like what's the point?

Julian: 7:13

You know, kind of just coding into the void. I don't know if this is actually going to work, If I'm putting all this effort into it. I kind of want to know that it's going to work. You know that it's going to be accepted in the, you know, through InfoSec and whatever it happens to be. So when you did get the job on the software development team at Oracle and you started getting that validation I know this was a few years ago, this was quite a few years ago now for you, but do you, can you recall what that change was like?

Bob: 7:43

Yeah, it was exponential growth.

Julian: 7:47

That wasn't a setup. That wasn't a setup.

Bob: 7:50

No, it made a lot of difference. Yeah, maybe we can relate it more to more recent times with PyBytes as well. Maybe if both in building our scripts and utilities. But once we did something together, with 100 days, for example, or building the platform, so much more fun, right? But also just the fact that we could just run ideas by each other, communicate a lot on the issues, change the vibe, right.

Julian: 8:16

Yeah, mm. Hmm, no, you're exactly right, and so, from my perspective, it was a while I was at Amazon as a software developer, and I was lucky enough, though, that, when I joined the team, I had a really good friend of mine. Eleanor joined the team at the same time off, but she wasn't always working on the same stuff as me, and she was often, you know, I may not be able to connect with her to talk about the code or anything for a couple of weeks at a time, you know, and I was working on stuff that had never been done before, you know, within the realms of the data centers and what I was tasked with doing, and that's fine, but it also meant I had no one to give me any feedback. I had no one that had the security clearance or the you know, permissions to look at my code and the stack that I was working on, and I found it really challenging to code by myself like that and by, you know. Contrasting that, working with you on the 100 days of code and building PyBytes and writing blog posts and learning Python, the difference in energy was night and day, you know. It was fantastic, and it was one of those things that solidified when I eventually did leave that coding role.

Julian: 9:37

That's kind of one of the things that led to me leaving the role at Amazon, because I thought I get to code with you, bob, outside of work. I get to do stuff that I really enjoy. I'm not within the boundaries of Amazon's coding framework which I'm sure some listeners know how hectic that is and I have a lot more fun doing that coding with you. So I don't need to do it every day as a day job there anymore. I can get more experience and fun working on our own stuff than that. And so and we had that validation we had that constant working together feeling, whereas at Amazon we were very much in silos and you know some of the people I couldn't talk to about it, they didn't have the same expertise, they worked on a different coding language and so they had no idea, you know, and the only person I could really talk to was Eleanor, and she had her own things to work on too. So it was yeah to me. That was my experience and I've just I've never looked back because since, you know, working with you and doing PyBite bite stuff, I've always had that semblance of and that sense of community. I've always known there's a hundred people I can go and text about this or talk to a ping or send a message to, so it's just made a huge difference. You know, and I really hope you know all of you listening to this or watching this I really hope you have someone or some place to go. And this isn't just a shameless plug for our community, but it is, at the same time, it kind of is, it kind of is right. But the point is I just really hope that you have that, because you may not know that you don't have that and you may not know any better. As you said, bob, you don't know what you don't know. So if you don't know you're missing this, you have to find it to know that you were missing it all along. So that's partly why we created the community in the first place, just so people had a place to hang out and talk about code and whatever. So, yeah, I'm really glad we did it and I'm hoping people join it after hearing this.

Julian: 11:38

Hey, everyone, a quick break from the episode to introduce you to our brand new coaching program, the PyBytes Developer Cohorts. Now, these are cohort programs typical of a bootcamp style interface, of working together with a group of other people, except it's got that unique PyBytes twist on it, where you are going to be building all day, every day. There is very little material that you will be consuming, so you won't be stuck in that tutorial paralysis. The point here is that you will be building from day one and alongside other people also building the same app in their own repositories. You can all talk, you can all share, you can all grow together and, of course, you'll have a PyBytes coach supporting you the whole way. So if you are interested, just check it out, click the link below it is pibytescoachingcom and we will see you in the next cohort.

Bob: 12:31

The accountability is crazy, right, like you just push so much harder if you're working together with somebody on something, right, so you just don't want to let the other person down, so you're going to push harder, right, there's somebody waiting, so, uh, it's uh, yeah, but that coding in a silo is is, uh, very common actually. Um, what's beautiful with the group coaching is that on these calls, people share these stories and there's always something like oh, that that resonates really, that really resonates with me, and it turns out they have all these things accumulated and then they, yeah, are kind of forced to participate in a call because with the main purpose, of course, to build the app, but then there's always more that people share and then it really resonates and it just means that, yeah, there's so much more they probably need to share and they might have doubts about Right, and then to be able to express that and interchange that with people is super important.

Julian: 13:32

So yeah, I agree, I agree, and I think what I've seen in our community that just fills me with such I don't know, it's just joy. I know it sounds a bit cheesy, but it fills me with joy is that people are finding friends there and they're connecting. And we can't see who's messaging who behind the scenes, but there are metrics that tell us that, hey, this many direct messages were sent over the platform in the past month. Right, we don't know who or whatever was sent, but there's a lot of conversation going on behind the scenes that you and I obviously it's not just you and me talking, because we have our own channels but it's just incredible to me that people are using this community that we built as a way to connect, to meet up in person, to work on open source projects together, to come up with ideas, to lament about pains they're going through, to talk about the job hunt, to find jobs. You know, you name it, people are using it and that I'm very proud that we've been able to build something like that. And right now we're sitting at what? 1300, almost 1400 people in there, which you know I.

Julian: 14:42

Sometimes I sit there and I think, oh, that's not a huge amount, but I'm like that's, that's a lot of people in our community sitting there wanting to chat about this stuff, right?

Julian: 14:50

So, um, yeah, so I guess the the call to action or the last note I'll say on this is it don't go it alone If you're out there or you know someone who's a developer and just doesn't have someone to talk to, and it doesn't just have to be about Python, right, we want to have conversations about AI, people talking about that stuff in the community.

Julian: 15:10

Bob, you're about to make a post in there about AI and you know, and we won't go into that, but these are conversations that happen, right, I just happened to spark a conversation because I found my old son Microsystems coffee mug and that kicked off this week long conversation with people in the in the chat. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I'm, I'm really proud, and if you, if you're watching this or listening to it, you know, do yourself a favor and just drop in and say hello and you'll find that there is a boatload of people in there who are just willing to chat with you about whatever tech, technical thing you want to talk about, or even beyond. Right, there are definitely some nerdy things in there. We've talked about dungeons and dragons and stuff before as well.

Bob: 15:55

So yeah, it's not only python, it can also be just software related stuff, unix, or just the nerdy stuff, games and books, always books.

Julian: 16:02

So yeah, yes, it's much more than just python, and that's a nice segue to wrap this up. So books, man. So thank you everyone for listening to that. We're just going to wrap it up with our weekly books. What are we reading, bob? What do you? What are you on at the moment?

Bob: 16:15

so many different books, which is I every time. Well, what comes to mind is one about bowlcom, which is this book site which was, I think, at the offset was meant to be international, but now it's more centered in Holland, right In the Netherlands. Yeah, so business book and always, it is always inspiring to read business books and you know kind of what, what, the growth and pains and lessons where they went through. So I find that interesting. Yeah and yeah, reviewing a pretty dense but very great Rust book.

Julian: 16:58

But that's a slow going, but really good.

Bob: 17:02

I will drop a note in the community when that's more official, when that comes out. Why are you reading that? Well, we are going to do a Rust cohort, so yeah, and that's. I think it's also driving that back to the point of the episode. Like, I cannot pretend to be a fluent rustation, as they call rust programmer in in in a month or so, right, so I'm partnering up, partnering up with a rust coach, and I'm definitely not going to do that alone, because I'm not capable of that, right, but together we can, right. So it's, it's, it's going to be a great project. Um, yeah, and and so. So not only partner up, but partner up with somebody that has that experience that you want to acquire as well.

Julian: 17:50

Yeah, love it man yeah, that's awesome lots of good stuff.

Julian: 17:54

Um, well, look, last time I think I mentioned a book I was reading the magician series by um raymond e feist, uh, and I'm on book three. So, um, I bought the third book because my neighbor didn't have it, so I bought it. I'm going to read it and give it to him to complete his collection because that's the one he's missing, uh, but I'm almost finished that already. So I, man, I'm flying through this fiction. It's great, um, but to your point, I'm starting to get that itch not literally, um, I'm starting to get that itch to um, get into, uh, you know, a business mindset book again, because I was feeling a bit burnt out by too many of those um unfinished and all that stuff. So I'm kind of keen to jump back in and, um, yeah, I've got a few that I've I've been eyeing to either finish more than just the first chapter or just pick up a new one. So I'm excited, but I'll share that next time.

Julian: 18:42

We got to go we do gotta go yeah, yeah, it's quick, man, sad we only get such limited time together. That's it. It's open a call now yeah yeah, I gotta go to bed. It's 9 pm. I forgot to eat dinner tonight, so I'm gonna go eat some food and then I'm gonna go away. I actually forgot. I made the kids dinner dessert with, you know, fruit and all that stuff, and I've got to eat something myself. So no, ignore the bio. That's it, man.

Julian: 19:11

All right, look everyone thank you for joining and, uh, as always, for watching, paying attention, listening. Uh, if you act on anything this episode, uh, just join that community, join our community using the links below and say hello. We'd love to hear from you. We really would. Yeah awesome.

Bob: 19:29

Well, up to see you there and uh, thanks for tuning in, as always, and we'll be back, uh, next week with another one too easy. Thanks, bob, see you there, and thanks for tuning in, as always, and we'll be back next week with another one too easy thanks, bob.

Julian: 19:36

See you everyone. Bye. Hey everyone. Thanks for tuning into the pie bites podcast. I really hope you enjoyed it. A quick message from me and bob before you go to get the most out of your experience with pie bites, including learning more python, engaging with other developers, learning about our guests, discussing these podcast episodes, and much, much more please join our community at pybytescircleso. The link is on the screen if you're watching this on YouTube and it's in the show notes for everyone else. When you join, make sure you introduce yourself, engage with myself and Bob and the many other developers in the community. It's one of the greatest things you can do to expand your knowledge and reach and network as a Python developer. We'll see you in the next episode and we will see you in the community.