Julian: 0:01

It was just really, really cool. There was lots of excitement, lots of fanfare over there, many conversations happening as a result, and it's just really to me, this is what we built PyBytes for to really lift people up and make a difference, and I feel like we're doing that, and it's very, very exciting. Hello and welcome to the PyBytes podcast. We talk about Python career and mindset. We're your hosts. I'm Julian.

Bob: 0:28

Sequeira, and I am Bob Valdobos. If you're looking to improve your Python, your career and learn the mindset for success, this is the podcast for you. Let's get started. Welcome back everybody. This is Bob Valdobos, here with the PyBytes podcast, episode 202. I'm here with Julian Sequeira.

Julian: 0:47

How are you man?

Bob: 0:48

Good, are we recording?

Julian: 0:50

We. I hope so. It's been a while, let me see yeah, we're recording, we're recording, we're good.

Bob: 0:54

We're good, first episode together after 200, which was with Juanjo, then we had Christina and now we're back, yep.

Julian: 1:09

How are you, christina? And now we're back. Yep, I don't. Yeah, it's exciting, man. I mean it's been weeks since we recorded and I am feeling a little nervous. But when we were discussing this everyone before recording I realized, yeah, we haven't really talked about PyBytes, we haven't talked about us. We haven't talked about the stuff we're working on and all the exciting stuff from our end. We've talked a lot about other people and what they're doing and the exciting stories they have, but we've got to make time for us. We need time for us. So that's what this episode is about, and we celebrated episode 200, looking at the past and all the cool stuff that we've done and accomplished. So we're going to look a little bit forward and what's happening now. So how do you want to kick this off, bob?

Bob: 1:47

Well as always, with some wins.

Julian: 1:49

Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, let's do our personal wins. All right, you go first. What's your win for the week?

Bob: 1:55

Win for the week. I have been coding more. I'm coaching six people, right, so it's pretty busy plus all the stuff we're working on, but I'm deliberately carving out time to study the algorithms, the data structures, and, of course, a good way to do that is to try to solve Advent of Code challenges, which you can do even if it's not December. You can go back to previous years, right. So, yeah, I've been doing those and just studying more. I took an O'Reilly subscription and it feels great, you know, and growing the technical skills, and so what's cool about this challenge is not only like solving them, but also then working on, you know, cleaner code refactoring, like the other day I refactored like a two grid, typical numerical thing and then, okay, let's use NumPy and made it like 10 times faster.

Bob: 2:48

So those kinds of things, it's really good, and that leads also to more interesting content.

Julian: 2:54

You had a LinkedIn post about that, didn't you? Yeah, we can link that.

Bob: 2:57

That was interesting. Because not only the post with the snippet, with the screenshot, but a lot of cool conversation as well with people, uh, you know, even bringing back fortran and stuff. So yeah, that's cool.

Julian: 3:10

No, I love that. That's awesome, man, nice. Um, my wins if I'm to jump it, actually there's one, one of the wins I really wanted to share today, but we'll talk about that. You know a bit of an update in a bit, but, um, probably the one that comes to mind was some feedback I got, uh, the other day. So, as, as you all know, we've been putting a bit of an update in a bit, but probably the one that comes to mind was some feedback I got the other day.

Julian: 3:27

So, as you all know, we've been putting a lot of effort into our community. We really want the PyBytes community to come first, and we're just constantly in the middle of all the other stuff that we do. We really want that to be the place that you come to for information, to find a connection with people, to network, to grow and just make it your place, you know, just be happy there and find comfort there. And I got some wonderful feedback from someone the other day, from John I won't say surnames, but he'll know who he is when he hears this Just congratulating us on the effort we've put in, he goes you've done a wonderful job with the community.

Julian: 4:05

And this was someone who and for all of you old hats out there who've been with us for a few years, you know that we used to be in Slack before we moved to the Circle platform and he, he was a holdout. He did not like the move from Slack to Circle, and as did many people who fell into that same boat. But he said you've actually turned me around and I've come to appreciate what you've done here and how it works. So that made my day, because I've put in countless hours and even you, bob, behind the scenes some of the technical issues we've had across the community. We've worked with Circle very closely to fix things and it's wonderful to get that feedback. So that was worth the time to talk about because that made my week, that feedback.

Bob: 4:52

I mean, you cannot beat the Slack performance. It's very fast, but on the other hand, this is just a better tool for the job and this feels like community. It feels like PyBytes it's our own branding and, yeah, really great work as well All the changes you have been making, and it's a really cool place.

Julian: 5:11

So, if you're not, there yet go check it out.

Bob: 5:13

Really supportive group of people. Knowledgeable, inspiring group of people.

Julian: 5:19

The thing I'll just add on top is that Discord I often get people saying, why don't you move to discord, and I just can't stand it. I love disc. Yeah, I love it, look, I love it for for gaming and with my mates and things like that and just ad hoc stuff, but for a structured community I really struggle with the layout, the theme, just the way it works. It doesn't feel intuitive to me and I might be coming across some old, cranky person by saying that, because I know some people who love it, live and breathe it, but it just never worked for me as a community engagement tool. Maybe it reminds me of old message boards, you know, where you just post messages and no one would really interact. I found it very difficult, so anyway, I digress.

Bob: 6:03

I mean when I say terrible, as a community tool like that just doesn't fit what we want out of the tool. But the tool itself is great, of course. But yeah, it's just again all about using the right tool.

Julian: 6:13

Yeah for the job and what we're doing. So, before we dive into those updates, we have some wins you want to talk about Bob?

Bob: 6:32

from more of the technical stuff we do. What's going on, it's just it wins. I mean like pie bites wins, yeah, like PDC and all the stuff, yeah, yeah. So, um, with the coaching, um, you really see that compound effect when people uh build and work with us for a couple of weeks or month. So I wanted to, um, yeah, share at least, um, well's, the two wins.

Bob: 6:44

So one was PDM, one-to-one coaching, and Mark shared this win that he built this full-featured web application for managing utility service inspections. So it was a real-world problem, real stakeholders, really cool. And then he wrote in his win that the growth journey was going from basic scripts to a system handling. I'm quoting here handling real field data alert to architect application, manage complex database relationships, implement error handling and deploy containerized applications to cloud infrastructure. And I really like this win because this kind of shows so well that you can study this stuff forever, right, but there's so much more to it. I always say like one third is Python, one third is software, best practices, one third is tooling, deployment and all that stuff right. And through that app, which was fairly complex, he learned all these things right and he really grew as a developer and I think that that's really cool. And then he worked with his coach and there was just a lot of code reviewing and feedback, design patterns, whatnot, and, yeah, I think it's just amazing.

Julian: 7:55

Yeah, the thing I want to add to that is that these are the things that you just you don't get that feedback when you're coding by yourself. I mean, it seems obvious, but there are so many things that you don't even realize that you're missing out on when you code by yourself. Like hearing those things. Just in our years as developers, we only really started to get feedback like that when we worked on dev teams with senior people, right, so, and that took years to get to and that took plenty of time and effort and you get lucky if that happens. So, yeah, it really makes my day to hear that. Mark had that experience in PDM and, yeah, tight timing as well. Right, 12 weeks got all that done in that time. It's just incredible, very impressed.

Bob: 8:43

Yep and a second witness from PDC. So our COVID program, that's a shorter program and more in group setting. And Brennan shared another win that after the program he took what he learned and started this personal project with a friend and he clearly could do it now and take it much further by all the lessons he learned in a relatively short time. So again going back to like you have to build real world stuff and if you get that coach feedback or feedback from a fellow developer that has been there before, it can just really shortcut your learning.

Julian: 9:20

It's amazing to me as I listen to these stories and I read them. So if you're in the community, you'll see people share this stuff all the time. But when you read these stories, um, people are almost surprised at wow, this this worked, or wow, this experience. I never expected it to be this deep or this helpful Right, and it's one of those things that you kind of have to experience or know someone intimately to trust them when they say this is the experience you need to grow. So you know, that's one of our great, one of our greatest challenges when we talk to people who are interested in the coaching right is showing them, showing them and convincing them that, yeah, this is going to be life-changing for you, but once they're in, it's always the case, so I love it. Okay, so that was some of those wins. Now you're also working on some cohorts, right. So the cohort Brandon was in was which one?

Bob: 10:17

Snipster. So it's a classic Python, right. So a beginner and more advanced Python, and now we're branching out into Rust, AI and Django. So, exciting, a lot of work. But yeah, rust, I'm doing with a Rust coach, jim Hodep AI. I'm doing with one of our coaches, juanjo and Django. I'm going to do myself. That's the furthest ahead. I'm just first working with these two guys.

Julian: 10:46

That's still so cool, man. So we have all these cohorts. So I'm really proud. We're going to have these cohorts. We have two existing ones. We're going to have Django-specific Rust and AI. It's exciting times, man. It's really cool. I'm very excited.

Bob: 11:01

We got the formula down right. We know the formats. You know weekly group calls weekly code review forum. So we have now this template and we can now branch off into more specific ones. And, yeah, I really like these three ones because we have this trend of more tools being written in Rust in the Python ecosystem. Django is still one of the top frameworks for web development and we have really good experience with and, yeah, using AI with Python. That's, of course, also a very hot topic and something that can set you apart if you know how to build apps with that technology right. So we could do others and more, but I'm really stoked about these three.

Julian: 11:45

That's awesome, man. I love it. It's exciting how this is growing so very, very cool. All right, so the next thing I wanted to talk about was the coding platform, pybytes platform. Love it or hate it, right, this is the platform that gets people results with Python, because we don't spoon feed you, we don't treat you with disdain and maybe I'm overstepping by saying that, but the reality is, the coding platform that we have doesn't just throw abstract issues at you trying to trick you or corner you into frustration. Right, we give you real world exercises that will actually mirror what you do in the day job as a developer.

Julian: 12:27

Now, the reason I say that is because we've seen adoption increase. We've seen more and more people signing up every day. Special thank you to everyone who actually subscribes to support us and continue using the full platform. That's incredible. We really appreciate everyone who does that.

Julian: 12:44

But even more exciting is we're seeing adoption of the platform around the world thanks to some of our partnerships, and the thing I really wanted to highlight here was the partnership in South Africa with Nascent Group, a cybersecurity company that we partner with to get our platform out over there and start making a difference over there. They were at a cybersecurity conference a couple of weeks ago and there were 10 lucky winners of the PyBytes platform. There was a competition and 10 people from an academy over there won 10 annual licenses to the platform as part of a competition. So it was just really, really cool. There was lots of excitement, lots of fanfare over there, many conversations happening as a result, and it's just really, to me, this is what we built PieBytes for to really lift people up and make a difference, and I feel like we're doing that and it's very, very exciting to me.

Bob: 13:40

So that was the win I wanted to share.

Julian: 13:42

Sorry.

Bob: 13:43

Across the globe.

Julian: 13:43

Yeah, Truly international, just like our original PyBytes logo the planet with PyBytes on the top.

Bob: 13:53

And then we took a es domain. It seemed like Spain only, but then we'll have to start somewhere.

Julian: 14:02

Yeah, let's see, we start small. Now we're going to make some changes to PyBytes to accommodate our global reach, but we'll get there in a minute A quick break from the episode to talk about a product that we've had going for years now. This is the PyBytes platform, bob. What's it all about?

Bob: 14:16

Now with AI, I think there's a bit of a sentiment that we're eroding our skills because AI writes so much code for us. But actually I went back to the platform the other day, solved 10 bytes and I'm still secure of my skills because it's good to be limited in your resources. You really have to write the code. It really makes you think about the code. It's really helpful.

Julian: 14:35

Definitely helpful, as long as you don't use AI to solve the problems. If you do, you're just cheating, but in reality, this is an amazing tool to help you keep fresh with Python, keep your skills strong, keep you sharp so that when you are on a live stream, like Bob over here, you can solve exercises live with however many people watching you code at the exact same time. So please check out pybytesplatformcom. It is the coding platform that beats all other coding platforms and will keep you sharper than you could ever have imagined. Check it out now, pybytesplatformcom. And back to the episode.

Bob: 15:13

Yeah, it has been busy, but still on the roadmap are, of course, these learning paths about the type in SQL model and async IO. By the way, I saw a nice article by Anthony about 10 years of async IO. Need to still read that Shout out yeah, more stuff is coming. But yeah, we're making improvements to the exercises, to the platform experience, but yeah, more exercises are coming. On the other hand, we have like 400 plus exercises. Right, there's so much you can do there. So, yeah, and again, no AI yet. Not sure about that one yet, but for me still, it's a good way to uh not have like being forced not to use co-pilot.

Julian: 15:53

Basically yeah, I don't know about you, man, but I don't know if there's a bit of ai burnout with this stuff. You go to every tool now and there's an ai wizard or something that pops up saying you could now customize this with ai, and I'm like I've cried out loud just let me work without these damn prompts trying to finish my thoughts for me. So I'm kind of I don't know. I'm kind of happy that we don't have it on the platform yeah, we talked about it.

Bob: 16:18

They're going to autopilot, right and uh, so yeah, we could have it yesterday. It's not too difficult to add, right, but although you also need to control the cost and all that, but, um, but yeah, we're actually finding it's a good feature that there's no AI, so you have to really think about the code you write, because that's becoming increasingly difficult with having AI everywhere.

Julian: 16:40

That's it, and if you really need it, we can't stop you opening a new tab and going to chat GPT, right, or whatever else you might use you can totally do that right. Use the tools to help help you solve right but then be, but not too much yeah, and if you do it too much, well then you gotta ask yourself what's the gain, what's the point? So, um, yeah, no, I love it. And just just to finish off, this platform update uh, we have documentation for it now.

Bob: 17:10

Oh, that's a big win yeah.

Julian: 17:11

Yeah, Huge win for us was to actually have formal documentation for the platform. It's obviously as Bob and I do. We iterate quickly, right? So that's been pushed, it's out there. We still have plenty more documentation to add, but the core functionality is there how to use it, solve a byte, set up an account.

Bob: 17:36

And it's at docspybytesplatformcom. So that's pretty exciting. We iterate quickly, aka we unship on, we ship unfinished stuff, yeah, yeah.

Julian: 17:40

And then we, we build up the docs as we go right like yeah, build as it's being read, don't be surprised if you use it one day and the next day there's another five articles on it.

Bob: 17:49

So did you sync the Teams one?

Julian: 17:52

I have not synced it yet. I haven't synced that one yet. There's a bit of editing to do, so I'll get to it. No, no, listen, this is a live podcast. Don't put me on the spot.

Bob: 18:04

Oh, that's why I do it All right, accountability.

Julian: 18:07

Accountability Okay, that is a great segue and to get me off the hook for a second into the community updates. So I really wanted to share some of these things with all of you listening and watching. The community continues to grow and this is the PyBytes community. That's pybytescircleso. If you haven't joined yet, what are you waiting for? Circleso? If you haven't joined yet, what are you waiting for? Come on, just join us in there. You get to chat with us. But the cool thing is that people are getting more and more involved. So we had the before. Actually, you know, I'll talk about this one first. The accountability, and this was a win for me. I really wanted to share this.

Julian: 18:49

This week was our first accountability and focus session in the public community, so this isn't something for PDM or any of our clients. This is for everyone in PyBytes universe, right? This event is free. It's there for anyone to join, and today we did the very pilot event, which was at 1030 am my time. So towards the U, towards the US afternoon slash evening, depending where you are and obviously overnight for you, bob, in Europe. So we'll definitely do a Europe session, but the idea is that this was something I remember doing during the COVID years, where we would just get on a call on mute but videos on and that would keep us accountable to stay at our desk, stay focused and stay working, because the other person at the other end of the call could see what you were doing from the video, right? So you're not going to get up and you know, go for a shower or grab a coffee or watch TV. You're going to sit at your computer and work.

Julian: 19:45

So this focus session was an accountability session for people in the community to come together, work on whatever it is they wanted to. So some sort of you know whether it's study, learning Python, coding something, playing the guitar For me it was writing. It was just writing stuff for us. So I went and wrote quite a few things for us while we were doing that, for the platform and everything, and it was just wonderful. We had a fantastic session.

Julian: 20:11

The people who joined were so grateful at the end of it. They felt like they accomplished stuff. They just felt amazing and we just sat on mute the whole time and we even went five minutes over, I think, and I got off mute and scared them by saying hello everyone, and they got startled and I said we're over time by five minutes, let's hang it up, but tell me what you thought. And they loved it. So we're going to kick off more of these sessions, different time zones to suit, might even get someone else from the PyBytes team to host one, like Eric or Jeff or someone at a better time for most people, and we'll go from there. But I'm very excited.

Bob: 20:51

It sounds weird, right, sitting on a call and not using the call to talk, although I guess somebody can say something at some point that that's allowed. It's just weird idea, right, but I'm doing that with uh, with coaches as well when I'm working on these cohorts and stuff, and the accountability is crazy. Like first you block it off in the calendar and then you sit together, you work deliberately on on the same product or whatever, right, um, although in your session people can work different stuff, but this also works really well if you're working on the same thing, and it's just crazy. You get a lot done and and and, and. Then after the session, there's this ongoing energy as well. Right, so it. So it's amazing, this concept.

Julian: 21:36

Yeah, man, I felt motivated. I felt a buzz after it. I didn't want to stop and I think that's why we went over time. But yeah, it was wonderful A lot of momentum. I actually can't wait for the next call because it gave me permission to focus on something and not feel like I needed to be pulled away. I felt like I was in a meeting. I gave it the same weight that I do is, when I'm on a meeting with someone, I'm not distracted by email, phone calls, nothing. So it was really good. Anyway, I won't go into it.

Bob: 22:01

Next iteration, then, is to work on some code together, right? So we have been doing these ensemble programming sessions in PDM and it's super cool like sitting together with five, six people working on the same problem, taking turns so that we definitely want to do right, like, instead of me, maybe five coding and everybody watching. I think it will be much more fun to work on the same problem. For example, our code challenges, we kicked off again in a community, right, and then work on those problems together and then just take turns. It's a bit of setup because you need to have like a shared VS Code thing. But, yeah, that I'm looking really forward to to have like an hour a week or a month whenever get together with a bunch of people and code on the same thing.

Julian: 22:50

I think Blaze and sherry and jeff were talking about running those so yeah, so the pie whites team wants to run these for for the community, which is, I love it. Just again, the community's firing people are getting engaged and enjoying being part of this, so it's really good yeah, I love it that I even have to.

Bob: 23:08

I was like, oh, they were going to do that, like like they just run with it. You know it's amazing. So I'm definitely going to join those.

Julian: 23:16

Yeah, do what we can to enable them and let them run with it. So you touched on it very quickly. But we had the Summer of Code Challenge as well. That went over for the North was it Northern Hemisphere summer with all of you over there, and it was a wonderful challenge to. There was the scrape, the PyBytes API or PyBytes blog to get all of our articles and do whatever you wanted really some manipulation, list them out, find issues, whatever broken links, that kind of stuff. But we also had a second one as part of this, which was the NASA API challenge. So we had some amazing, amazing submissions for that and I'm very proud of the guys who did that, which was just really cool.

Bob: 24:01

Yeah, we need to start working on the next one, right, because it's once a month, right, one per month.

Julian: 24:07

Yeah. So now that's, yeah, summer's over there, right, get back to work, get back to school. Getting into autumn, yeah, yeah. And then we've all been working on this side of the planet, mate. So.

Bob: 24:18

Work's no different here.

Julian: 24:23

So, yeah, we'll get another community challenge out ASAP, which will be nice to do.

Bob: 24:26

Smaller individuals here getting a lot of holiday.

Julian: 24:32

Yeah out, which will be nice to do. Smaller individuals here getting a lot of holiday yeah, these, these kids, man, no, anyway, yeah, all right. So before we wrap it up, um, a couple of things we just wanted to mention.

Bob: 24:39

What was the first one you did like from a trend perspective, oh my god, the python documentary, yeah, so, uh, we watched it obviously, uh, quite quickly when it came out and it's it's, it's super well done and I think it's well balanced. You see all the major people in the space and, yeah, you hear the backstories. Right, let's not spoiler it for people that haven't watched it, but there were just some really surprising things. Yeah, I'm not sure how much, I think everybody has seen it by now, but basically, python being saved.

Bob: 25:12

At some point it was going down and it was being saved and here we are. And then just one highlight, I think, for me also just the design, how it always has been community first and Guido taking all that feedback also from the science community and um, incorporating that very early right, and that he enabled python to to be usable in so many uh places. So he was very open to that feedback. So I think that was one of the things I I found it interesting, found interesting to see and, of course, that whole community aspect that you see till this day right like as one of the, the major features, that you see till this day right Like as one of the major features. Yeah, yeah, great watch and very the editing, the shooting. It was for me it was a Netflix caliber. It was really good.

Julian: 25:58

Exactly. I honestly didn't know what to expect. I thought, you know, I don't know anything about the company that was making a cult repo. I'd never seen anything of theirs before, so I had no idea what the production value was going to be. Sat, I'd never seen anything of theirs before, so I had no idea what the production value was going to be. Sat down to watch it with lunch on this computer. And it was so good I went no, no, this has to go on the TV. So I went and put on the TV in the living room and sat on the couch and watched. It was really, really good.

Julian: 26:21

And to what you said, the thing that surprised me was, yes, that point where Python was kind of needed saving. It was teetering on the edge, that's. I had no idea that happened. And I think the surprising thing that just impressed me was I really never understood the speed, because I didn't know years, I didn't know timelines, I didn't know any of that. The speed at which it just skyrocketed and grew, like it had a cult following, like IRC type chat room kind of following for ages. But then just there was this point where it just boomed and things went, you know, through the roof.

Julian: 26:56

So I really really made my day to read, to watch all of that and, obviously, to see some familiar faces there. A few times I'm like, oh yeah, that's so, and so I know that you know it was really nice. Oh yeah, that's so, and so I know that you know it was really nice. That's and to wrap that up, that's kind of why I love the python community is that people who work on the core python dev team are as engaging and approachable as the next person. You would probably met them and not even realize that they were core developers or people who've been with Python for the past 30 years. Yeah, it's just to me. I was just blown away. I was very impressed. If you haven't watched it yet, give it a watch and look out for watch parties as well People watching these together in convention centers, at the pub, who knows I don't know where, but yeah, it's very exciting.

Bob: 27:52

Yeah, and secondly, you wanted to touch upon AI.

Julian: 27:56

Oh yeah, look, this is just. I know we're over time, so I want to keep this super short. The only thing I just want to say is, for better or worse, ai is here, and it's pretty much here to stay Right. And for as much as I want to hold out on certain things and I find it certain things questionable. And you know, are we going to put people out of jobs, whatever? It is top of mind for everyone, across every industry? Right, take your head out of the tech bucket for just one second.

Julian: 28:25

I was in the city last Monday, had many, many meetings with people from different, not just industries, but also different kinds of roles. So I'm thinking human resources, professionals, you know what do you call it? Marketing, digital marketing these kinds of people as well. Everyone's impacted by it, everyone's thinking about it and I think and this is a debate for another day a lot of the influence is because the powers that be at those companies, the CEOs of companies, have this AI craze and, for better or worse, that means it's here to stay. It doesn't matter what you think about it or how you feel. If the CEO is at the top talking about it and saying we need to do something with it, then you're going to be immersed in it, right? And so, again, it doesn't matter what industry you're in, people are talking about it, people are thinking about it.

Julian: 29:19

So my advice, or the conclusion I came to, which I wrote about in our email last week, is those of us who are technically illiterate and literate in technical stuff, we should learn what we can for the benefit of those around us, because I have family, I have plenty of friends who are not technical people not to the extent that we are that don't understand the implications of what AI can do, what it does. So, for example, hearing stories of people dumping personal records of people on their team into chat, GPT that's a breach of privacy. But if you don't know that, as a technically not I wouldn't say illiterate, but a non-technical person, you don't understand the implications of that, you won't know to hit, to tell that person to stop or say, hey, what did you do that for right?

Bob: 30:13

this is a real conversation I had, by the way, so I think it's our responsibility, knew my secret nickname the other day and that's surely because you fed it.

Julian: 30:23

I didn't, I would not have done that. I didn't know. I knew your address because I fed it that, because I couldn't understand your address my address, I'm joking what? And your credit card number? That's funny.

Bob: 30:38

Actually, you've got my credit card number. Hey, you don't know my credit number. You know my five. First I do but anyway.

Julian: 30:48

So yeah, but I respect your privacy. So thank you, I appreciate. Don't hold it up to the camera, okay, um no, but to to the. Just to finish off that thought. I really think it's our responsibility to keep on top of it so we can help the people around us, and I think that'll help a lot of people.

Julian: 31:06

Hey, everyone, a quick break from the episode to introduce you to our brand new coaching program, the PyBytes Developer Cohorts. Now, these are cohort programs typical of a bootcamp style interface, of working together with a group of other people, except it's got that unique PyBytes twist on it, where you are going to be building all day, every day. There is very little material that you will be consuming, so you won't be stuck in that tutorial paralysis. The point here is that you will be building from day one and alongside other people also building the same app in their own repositories. You can all talk, you can all share, you can all grow together and, of course, you'll have a pybytes coach supporting you the whole way. So if you are interested, just check it out, click the link below. It is pybytescoachingcom and we will see you in the next cohort I think there's a nice segue in the books.

Bob: 32:00

Um, definitely on ai. So shall we in the books. Definitely reading on AI, so shall we do the books, yeah, let's do that and call it quits.

Bob: 32:05

Yeah, so, as I mentioned, I took the O'Reilly sub and I'm reading Eddie Osmani, a big name in the JavaScript space, beyond Vibe Coding Actually, I misread the title because I thought, oh, vibe Coding, let's read it. But it's actually beyond vibe coding. So it definitely addresses vibe coding, but it also kind of offsets it against AI engineering. So vibe coding, cool prototyping, but there's also another way of using AI which is really challenging and user knowledge to write quality code. So a lot of it kind of makes sense already, but it's a very good perspective and also explains some models more. So why it's working more or better on CRUD apps or Python because it's trained on so much of that right, as you've seen yourself right why it's not working so well for UV Well, that's a newer tool, so it has had less training data unless you enrich the training data yourself, so stuff like that, and so it's a good read.

Bob: 33:02

And I'm also really wanting to learn more how machines learn, literally. So I picked up why machines learn. So that goes more into the math and you know that's not good at math, no kidding. So but yeah, this is going to help with really understanding more the underlying technology. And on the algo stuff. I picked up this classic how to solve it, and that's all about problem solving and stuff. This book is out there for years, like many years, and it seems to be, which ChatGPT, of course, suggested. So yeah, I'm reading more on the technical side. Yeah, cool, no novels.

Julian: 33:44

Yeah, so that's what I'm going to talk about. Oh good, no, that's cool. No, I'm glad. Well, it's kind of interesting. Again, I've mentioned this before. I've got to be in the mood for a specific book like that. So there's a book I can't remember the name of it for the life of me on my Kindle. It's just about parenting, you know, with the kids and everything. They're getting older. I've got a kid in high school now, so it's just just reading up on. That is what I'm reading during the day, if I get time in the mornings on the Kindle, but in the evening, yeah, I picked up. I just picked up and finished a novella called Hell Island by oh my God, I can't remember his name, but anyway, a book series that I was reading when we went to Pittsburgh last year.

Bob: 34:31

Oh yeah.

Julian: 34:31

So the book series I was reading there, there's a novella inserted in there I never found, but found it randomly at the library. So I was like sweet and I'm just, you'll be proud of me. I'm just about to pick up the four. Wait, no three. Body problem.

Bob: 34:49

Oh.

Julian: 34:50

So you made me get the yeah, you made me get the trilogy.

Bob: 34:54

I think you'll like it.

Julian: 34:56

Exactly so. I've got it ready to go.

Bob: 34:58

Fascinating.

Julian: 34:59

Yeah, so I've just pulled that off the shelf, um, after buying it and um, I'm gonna get get into that soon. So but I it was father's day over here, by the way, last weekend and I got a nintendo switch 2 as my gift from the family. It was the reading. Yeah, I know there goes the reading of plays super mario kart world and I just I'm loving it.

Bob: 35:18

So I've got to find the balance again yeah, yeah, no the tech reading comes and goes right like but now, when you're solving these problems and stuff, you're just actually motivated to read about that stuff. But yeah, there might be another season where it's just no, I cannot see. I cannot stand any tech book.

Julian: 35:35

Yeah, well, the same thing. It depends on how hectic the day is too. We we bust our butts for 10 to 12 hours a day. We're working, I mean we're recording this. It's almost 9 pm my time, and sometimes my brain just won't function trying to read a technical book right, nonfiction. So give me a nice fiction story with dragons or magic or space, and I'll be. My brain will absorb that.

Bob: 35:59

Sometimes I cannot even focus on that at the end of the day. Oh, I can't. Sometimes I just read the novel just to. You're going to focus and you're going to reread this page?

Julian: 36:09

no, matter how many times that's true, just to focus, you know.

Bob: 36:12

I can still do it.

Julian: 36:13

Well, that's, you know, if you find yourself rereading the page, that's when the TV comes on, and I think it was not last night. The night before I was shattered, I was exhausted, so I just sat there and watched Andor, an episode of Andor, season two. That's Star Wars stuff, so you've got to get into it. Yeah, all right. Well, I think that's a good place to end, and that was just a nice chat, man, I mean, forget the podcast up I enjoyed that podcast, that's still.

Julian: 36:42

Oh, yeah, it is a podcast. Yeah, I mean, we had everyone right. So, no, it was. It was good. But you know, thank you everyone for listening. We wanted to make this candid and just share the stuff because you haven't heard from the two of us in a while, and we know that many of you. We've heard the feedback from you that you enjoy our conversation. So, and hearing what we're up to, how pie bites is growing. So that was this episode rest. Next week and beyond, we have some cool guests coming. I'm actually going to be interviewed on a podcast shortly. I've got a meeting for that tomorrow and, yeah, we've got lots of good stuff coming your way, so stay tuned.

Bob: 37:11

Yeah, please do reach out on our Circle community or send us an email. If you want to see us interview certain guests in the Python space, let us know as well. If you have an interesting project or you did something open source and you want to talk about it, let us know as well. We're always looking for interesting guests. And, yeah, join the community and hit us up.

Julian: 37:33

Perfect, all right, well, thanks everyone for listening. We appreciate you and we'll be back next week. Thanks, bob All right Thanks.

Julian: 37:40

See you, man Cheers. Hey everyone. Thanks for tuning into the PyBytes podcast. I really hope you enjoyed it. A quick message from me and Bob before you go To get the most out of your experience with PyBytes, including learning more Python, engaging with other developers, learning about our guests, discussing these podcast episodes, and much, much more please join our community at pybytescircleso. The link is on the screen if you're watching this on YouTube and it's in the show notes for everyone else. When you join, make sure you introduce yourself, engage with myself and Bob and the many other developers in the community. It's one of the greatest things you can do to expand your knowledge and reach and network as a Python developer. We'll see you in the next episode and we will see you in the community.