Welcome And Guest Intro

Emma 0:00

This book is a practical guide to build web apps with generative AI using generative AI tools. And if you're a developer and you you're looking for a practical guide to learn that that will teach you with step-by-step instructions how to use AI to build web apps, you should check it out. If you're not using, then you should start now because it's going to be even more essential in the future.

Julian 0:30

Hello and welcome to the PiBites Podcast where we talk about Python, career, and mindset.

Bob 0:36

We're your host, I'm Julian Seguiri, and I am Bob Beldebot. If you're looking to improve your Python, your career, and learn the mindset for success, this is the podcast for you. Let's get started.

Emma’s Path And Community Work

Julian 0:48

Welcome back to the Pybites Podcast. This is Julian. I'm here with another special guest this week. Today I'm joined by Emma Saroyan, who's actually a bunch of things, and she may talk about one or two of them in a minute. But um at the moment, Emma is a dev advocate. She's a dev advocate consultant, she's a community builder, she's incredible in the dev space. And most importantly, right now for this podcast episode, Emma, you are the author of the book. And now give me a second to say the entire title. This is a long title. Generative AI for Web Development: Building Web Applications Powered by Open AI, APIs, and Next.js. So, Emma, welcome to the podcast.

Emma 1:30

Hey. Thanks a lot for having me.

Julian 1:34

It is my pleasure. I'm drinking a very hot tea out of my Pie Bites mug. Look at that product placement. Um, but Emma, welcome. This is very cool. This is your first podcast, right?

Emma 1:45

Yeah, it is very uh special because it is the first one.

Julian 1:50

Are you nervous?

Emma 1:52

Um, not at all.

Julian 1:54

Good, good. This is why we meet beforehand, so you don't feel nervous. I like that. Um, so Emma, welcome. Before we jump into the book, obviously that's what we want to talk about and tell everyone about today. But just do you want to just introduce yourself? Who are you? You know, how would you describe yourself as what you do every day and what you contribute and everything like that? I'd love to hear that.

Emma 2:16

Oh, that's such a hard question. Yeah, um, so basically I'm doing some uh I'm organizing a local community right now, um, doing some community building in open source. Um uh and um my background is in computer science, and then I entered the startup world, uh, worked at uh different startups, and then I um I was in a role of developer advocate. And basically when I was working in developer advocacy, um I was traveling to um to developer conferences, meeting uh with developers, and uh when I got involved into open source and was thinking about contributing, I basically um for me it was like uh how can I continue with my passion for advocacy work? And um I saw the opportunity um in the local community um and that gap between the the ecosystem that I'm in and the rest of the world. So I wanted to kind of uh connect that that two worlds as well uh and try to um you know address that gap and um try to build something here. And it's been um it's been a great joy for me building uh community from scratch. Um yeah, and also writing a book um to reach uh thousands of people that I might otherwise not be able to meet uh in person. Um so trying to have an impact at scale as well. Um that's cool. Through a book, yeah.

Julian 3:53

I love that. That's really, really cool. And just before we we jump into the book, you mentioned this community. Is that a a physical community where you are?

Emma 4:02

Uh yeah, it's uh it's a user group, a local Postgres user group. Um and uh I'm organizing in-person uh events and uh trying to launch this community initiatives in my country uh conferences as well, uh, trying to bring people together and creating that space basically for them as well for developers to share ideas. And it's been very interesting actually uh to navigate those cultural differences, those challenges that um it's very different how you communicate to developers in this part of the world is very different how you communicate to developers in the US uh or in in Europe. And um it's very interesting um yeah to be um to be in a position where you can um actually um bring people together, I think. And connect them with yeah, connect connect them with technologies I think that they love and can benefit from.

Julian 5:04

No, no, absolutely. I and I think it's a really astute observation that there's a nuance between communication across the the different parts of the world, and you have to share for everyone's uh everyone listening, uh, where in the world are you currently setting up this community?

Emma 5:20

I'm in Armenia. Uh it's a it's a small landlocked country in Caucasus. Um and um it's kind of for some people it's kind of Europe, but it's actually it's not because it's also not an official uh official it's not Europe. Um but it's kind of for some people it's kind of Europe. For some people, uh, I don't know, um they sometimes don't have any idea where it is and what it is, but um it's it's been um it's very interesting that it's a small country, but it's uh there there is a lot of like uh tech, you know, talent and there is a lot of potential for uh like uh development and um yeah.

Why This AI Web Dev Book

Julian 6:06

That's cool. If so, if there's time at the end, and I we might have time at the end, I want to dive into that. I want to learn more about this. This is so I I have a real passion for understanding communication and cultural nuances between regions of the world, especially being in Asia Pacific, right? So all the different countries through here, it there's it you you talk to people differently no matter where you go. So I I would love to dive into that. But first we we have to stick to the topic. We have to talk about your book, this amazing book that you wrote. So, first and foremost, generative AI for web development, building web apps powered by open AI, APIs, and Next.js. So, what is it about this book? This is the kind of pitch question I'm gonna ask you. Uh, for everyone listening, why should they check out this book? What is it about? Tell us the blurb or the story.

Emma 6:56

Yeah, um, so this book is a practical guide to build web apps uh with generative AI using generative AI tools um and specifically OpenAI uh APIs um and uh Next.js with Next.js. And if you're a developer um and you you're looking for a practical guide to learn that that will teach you um with step-by-step instructions how to use AI to build web apps, you should check it out because um using you can really benefit from using AI and integrating AI also in um your applications and making them more intelligent, uh as well as for your work, um, making your work your yourself more productive as a developer and learning how to use it effectively can really help you in your um day-to-day work as a developer. And otherwise, uh it's an essential part of any developers already in any developers uh toolkit. So if you're not using, then you should start now because uh it's going to be even more essential in the future. And uh you should you should start now, otherwise you will lose velocity. Because it's it's been developing very, very fast, and currently as well, it's developing so fast. And the book is more about AI than web development. And um if you are a developer, but for any levels, uh developers of any levels. So if you are a developer, you have never used AI, but I guess that's maybe most developers now are um trying to experiment. Yeah, experiment. Um but to it's important to stay um up to date with all these advancements and developments um in AI and um how you uh you can um use it in your work, yeah.

Julian 8:56

That's cool. So if I was to understand this correctly, then so you're saying that there's a big chunk of the book that's actually just about using generative AI or whatever AI service to help you with writing code first, almost the the vibe coding kind of it. But is this around getting it to just write the code verbatim and you don't know what it's doing, or assisting you in your process where you might ask it a hyper-specific question to write a specific function and then you take that and play with it? How do you kind of differentiate between the two pieces?

Emma 9:35

Yeah, uh so it is uh it starts with like what AI is in generative AI is uh about, and um it's it's a little bit about the history of it so that you know what that is, and then you learn about how Gen AI works, uh like how ChatGPT works, for example, how uh DALA works, uh, and then how to use OpenAI APIs, and you learn how all the tips and tricks uh around how to use, for example, ChatGPT to generate code um for the front end, uh how to build the back end with it. And uh it's uh it's actually guiding you, it's like it's giving you strategies, prompting strategies so that you can um guide ChatGPT or the AI to do this, to build this stuff for you. And if you don't have any, like if you're not an experienced developer, I mean you can still benefit from it because you will know how to, you can learn how to like how it works and how to use it. Um especially if you work through the examples, but maybe at some point your like understanding would will be limited to its like limitations because it uh AI hallucinates and you might not be able to be able maybe to work around its limitations, but the book also addresses that part as well, like how to work around the limitations as well. So um yeah.

Julian 11:02

You thought you thought of everything. I love it. That's that's really cool. And I I know so you get through this whole process of you know, the history, the learning, the prompts, the prompt engineering, the best practices, and all of that. Um now we you know with Pie Bytes, we're all about, you know, what is the practical stuff here? We want to get fingers to keyboard and start coding. So um I imagine there are there are projects to build in this, right? You guide them. What are some of the things without giving away everything? Uh, because you go and buy the book, people. But uh aside from without giving away everything, what are some of the projects that you you you could highlight that you build in the book?

Projects: Poetry, Language, Chatbot

Emma 11:39

Yeah, uh the second part is the practical part where uh it includes three projects. Uh it's about building GNAA-powered web apps. Uh and the first one is, and actually it builds up on each. I mean, they are independent, but the skill set, uh, like the levels kind of build up. So the first one I would say is the probably the simplest. It's a story poetry generator app. The second one is language learning app. And the the third one is a blog with custom chatbot. And you're also learning how to use the APIs, uh like the chat API, the image API, um, the custom API is another to to build these things, how to also by uh like storing data in a database and um using database as well for for small data, but um both integrating as well as using the um interface um to generate code. Um cool.

Julian 12:34

That's really cool. And just uh I I have to ask the app number two about learning languages.

Emma 12:41

Do you mean like actually learning a language like Japanese or yeah, it's it's like vocabulary um as well as like translations? Um that's cool. It's different for yeah, and um it's I think it's probably one of the most, you know, exciting uh things, yes, about uh AI that people want to use it to learn a language. Um and um I I always worry my favorite.

Julian 13:09

Do you do you ever worry, just side note, do you ever worry that that AI will hallucinate and give you the wrong translation and you'll say the wrong thing to someone?

Emma 13:20

Yes, a lot. I mean, I I always like I'm like I'm smarter than you then and I need to uh you know fix you. And I know that you're going to hallucinate. I mean, I don't trust you fully. I cannot rely on you, but uh, you're so helpful. Like you you're assisting me in so many things, and and I think all this like knowledge generation, you know, I can learn so much from you, but yeah, I'm not going to rely on you. Uh and um yeah, it's more like you're you're a competitor, uh or you you're just there to assist me, you know.

Julian 13:56

Uh I I know what you mean. I was writing something today into uh Chat GPT to just to throw around some ideas that I had, and it just made all these crazy assumptions about Pybytes. I was like, no, we don't do that. No, no, no, okay, we're gonna change all of that, you know.

Emma 14:12

Yeah, actually the prompts that you give, I mean, uh, I mean to Chat GPT, it can it can give things that just don't make make sense. I mean, it's very like uh I mean now it has of course better like reasoning abilities, etc. But um this this book specifically is for web development and uh for using it for code and for building apps. And uh now even I mean seeing all the like since it got published and like uh there there already has been uh there have been so many like further I don't know advancements that developers use um tools that actually uh have the like AI native tools to write code, debug code, and um not even that much maybe chat GPT for code. Um but I mean it's um it's been very interesting to see that uh that development and how how fast it really like developing.

Julian 15:12

Every month there's a new change, you know.

Emma 15:14

Yeah.

Julian 15:14

I mean, since you and I first spoke, Chat GPT 5.1 came out.

Hallucinations, Limits And Workarounds

Emma 15:20

Yeah, and so many like agents as well. I mean, oh next are agents, and um already we can see lots of like these agentic capabilities. Before that was more like intelligence, that every uh almost product or like bigger and small companies, they try to um, you know, every every product has an AI piece to it almost. Like they they just started like there there was a lot of push to integrate AI into everything. And now um, yeah, what about agents? I mean, next are agents, and everybody's building agents. Yeah, absolutely.

Julian 15:57

It I I kind of feel sometimes there might be an AI burnout as people go, oh my god, there's an AI feature in this now, it's a feature in that. But you know, it it it's helpful.

Emma 16:07

I I yeah, with the book also I I really wanted to emphasize on that that uh the advantages that it uh the benefits that it actually brings. So um that I think that's the the thing. It's not about like focusing, of course. There is I also have uh there is a chapter on like safety, legal, and ethical uh aspects. Uh but um I mean um it's amazing how you can build applications just using, I mean how AI can build it for you. And you don't even need uh an engineer to to build it, you just need to to to know how to use it as a tool and to use it effectively. Uh, and that there you will um really be, I think, saving time and a lot of you know.

Julian 16:55

And I think the the real benefit is it beyond uh in addition to what you just said, is is the unseen benefit is for underrepresented communities and people who don't have access to a long education cycle to learn, say, computer science and and learn these languages in and out. But they could bootstrap a quick idea that might help their family, you know, or help their parents, or help them pull themselves out of a challenging situation. So there's always so many cool things, and then that might inspire the excitement to go further down the rabbit hole and go, well, okay, I built this just using AI, this is really cool, but now I want to understand, exactly. And then they go and contribute to open source, they go and build, they learn, yeah.

Emma 17:39

I think it's it accelerates the yeah, it just gives you the opportunity to see the results first and then to to to get there faster, and then you need to um go back and learn uh to really like how it worked. And I think that's kind of yeah, that's um I think that's that's exciting, especially for beginners as well, and like you said, like making it so much accessible uh for for everyone.

Fast-Moving Models And Agents

Julian 18:09

You're right. I mean, I remember when I started learning Python, just you go through that same startup process of hello world, or here is how to print to screen, and you just think, oh my goodness. But if you built something first with AI that just is almost fully functional, then you're like, oh, this is great. I can learn this now and do it myself.

Emma 18:29

So Yeah.

Julian 18:30

Yeah, so I have to finish your thought. Go finish your thoughts.

Emma 18:34

Yeah, especially I think uh, for example, um students when like they study programming or computer science, right? And then they need to work on a project, programming project, and then you know, they they just don't maybe know like they don't know how to do it, and then they copy and paste the code to like to make it work. Um it's almost like seeing how actually Chat GPT or they go to Stack Overflow and ask questions and how Chat GPT is kind of replacing all of that, and basically they do that and then they they um uh I don't know, pass their I don't know, exam or homework, and then they start learning about like how it all works. And now there is a tool that uh is basically like uh doing that, you know, for you. It's it's kind of I I see that, you know, uh similarity between uh this yeah.

Julian 19:30

No, well that's and okay, so this leads me down another rabbit hole with with this book. And one thing we actually haven't addressed at all, the the challenging question in the room right now is actually we're a Python podcast, Emma. We're a Python podcast. This book is not written in Python. It's uh it's Next.js, right? So that's that's the language you that's your language of choice when it comes to JavaScript.

Emma 19:56

Yeah, it's uh uh Next.js is the full full for full stack applications, it's the framework. I mean, I actually Python could be a uh a good uh choice as well, uh, in a sense that for like OpenAI APIs, um even like they you can use both, they have APIs for Python as well. Um and you can potentially implement all the projects in Python as well. Uh yeah, yeah. Um, but uh no, that's fine.

Julian 20:25

I'm just kidding.

Ethics, Safety And Real Benefits

Emma 20:26

Yeah, the choice uh uh no, I love that that it's Python podcast, uh, because I love the community very much. I love the language as well. Uh but the book uh was mainly uh I think uh because in web development uh it's more like JavaScript and uh the the framework was uh exactly like for full stack applications for building and um yeah for JavaScript it's it was kind of easier, I think, to and for most developers as well. I think JavaScript is probably the the language uh that is most used by web developers specifically. So um yeah, and for ChatGPT as well, I think generating the front-end code in in JS was um easier. So yeah, that was the main reason I would say. Yeah.

Julian 21:17

Just a quick break. Let me ask you a question. How much of your last pull request did you actually write? And how much did AI write? If Copilot or ChatGPT disappeared tomorrow, would you still know how your code works and could you explain it in a code review? This is the problem we hear about the most from developers like you who reach out to us for a chat. At PieBytes, our Pybytes developer mindset program helps you become the developer who uses AI effectively, not the one who is completely propped up by it. Through a one-to-one coaching, real-world projects, and proper code reviews with an expert coach, not AI, you'll actually understand the Python code that you ship. If you're tired of feeling like a prompt engineer instead of a real developer, check out and apply for PDM using the link in the description. Now back to the episode. That's really good to know. I mean, from on a personal note, you know, I use ChatGPT and everything else. I've only really used it for Python and at most, maybe HTML, some CSS. And so I often don't even think about what it what it's like getting it to generate a whole different language. You know, so do you find actually let me back step one question. How many coding languages do you know?

Emma 22:40

Um I would say my main uh languages are the Python and JavaScript. And I also I mean to uh use SQL as well, but um i code mailing Python and JavaScript.

Julian 22:53

Okay. Do you notice? So that then the follow-on question is do you notice a difference between when it generates Python code and next.js? Is it more accurate with one over the other? This is just an interest question. I'm curious.

Accessibility And On-Ramps For Beginners

Emma 23:05

Yeah, um of course it's different, but to be honest, I I didn't pay that much attention to that fact. No, that's okay. I didn't compare. But I will do it, I think. I wanna I wanna try and see.

Julian 23:21

But I think what it hallucinates more on. Yeah, okay.

Emma 23:26

I think that uh there are of course other models as well now that you can use that can be like Cloud or um Gemini. And um yeah, for for for some languages, I would say uh yeah, uh some models might be better, but I need to figure that out first to tell the others.

Julian 23:46

There's a lot of experimentation to go down. Yeah, no, that's cool. So all right, look with the book, it sounds like an incredible book, and I um I definitely need to have a deeper look at it to play, especially if a few of the conversations I had just this weekend were about people wanting to integrate AI into um web apps. This was at the pub on Saturday, so quite scary that we've we're recording this now. Um, but I guess the question for me now, if we kind of shift to the mindset stuff, because Pybytes, you know, we like to talk about mindset and encourage people to do more and be them best selves, right? Why, and you touched on this at the start, but why did you choose to write a book? Because my understanding is writing a book is a very difficult, lengthy process. So, what drove you to write this book?

Python Vs Next.js Choices

Emma 24:35

Yeah, um, when I started writing it, I mean, um it was that boom that was happening in AI and um with ChatGPT and everything, and OpenAI was the dominant brand, and um I actually wanted um to um I really like saw the impact that it can have it can uh like uh the impact at scale that it can um have um because uh again I wanted to reach thousands of people that I cannot meet in person, for example. And um I wanted to connect them with this like technology somehow and like help them learn how to use it. And I I really I realized that um I mean it's going to be very challenging because it's developing so fast that if you now see uh I mean now you need a second edition of the book which includes the most up-to-date uh you know uh things. And um it's uh I think that was a unique challenge to like uh how to keep up keep up with all these like versions coming up and as well as like write something that that will be useful. Um and um also like uh I think the topic itself that it was um yeah, um the advancements in AI and everything AI related like really made me uh think about this uh like writing a book and knowing that it's going to be challenging as well because like you said, it's a lengthy process. And um together actually with my co-author as well, like he has already been like researching and teaching it, and uh he I think also he wanted to um to write a book as well, so that was uh that was important because I wanted to collaborate um on the book, uh, and I think that mattered um and uh yeah it's no that's cool.

Julian 26:47

I think this is okay, so this is my thing with with writing a book is that it takes a lot of commitment to keep coming back. Like your book has many pages, it's not a very short form book, right? So how did you stay motivated to come back? Actually, how long did it take to write? Can you share that? Are you allowed to talk about it?

Emma 27:10

Uh it took it took a year, I mean, the project itself, like to work on it, uh, because it's a big project, and uh it took a year to to to get it like published.

Julian 27:21

Yeah, um and that seems pretty quick, actually. That's pretty cool.

Sponsor: Developer Mindset Coaching

Emma 27:26

Okay, yeah, I mean, yeah, it depends on uh it can it's quicker for some for some authors, they they might say that it takes even longer. Um yeah, it's um yeah, I think that uh the mindset matters a lot. Um, and I think you apply that mindset of, for example, iteration. Like you said, like uh you you can uh apply that to writing as well. Like in tech, we we have that mindset of iteration. Yes, we work on on something and then we iterate and then we improve. And you can apply that to writing as well. You don't need to start big, you start small, and then um, yes, your book is going to have many pages, but you start small and then you focus on that, and then you can iterate and then improve. And you also don't need to do it alone. You can um collaborate with uh with a co-author, you can um find a community that can help. You also have a community around that um the publication that you're working with. Uh, you have um people who help you edit the book, who who give some advice or suggestions, and um that also keeps you like I think motivated. And it's also I think that um just focusing like on progress uh that you're making with every chapter rather than trying to be perfect and um realizing you don't need to know everything to write a book. Like uh you don't need to be an expert of the topic. I think authors are not who write books or publish books, they are not experts. Uh they're not the experts, but they are the people who are very curious to explore the topic deeply and also brave enough to share their findings and to share uh what they learned, because not everyone does uh, I think has the courage to share. I think this is the the other important thing and that another thing that was a bit uh quite challenging actually in the beginning. Um, okay, for example, I I have this, for example, I learn by writing it, yes. Now, I mean I have this learnings, but am I like brave enough to share it? Because we I think in tech we underestimate how much we know. I think that's the thing probably. We we think that, oh, this is very obvious, and this will be obvious to others as well, but that's not always true. I mean, something that is obvious to you might be very um mind blowing for someone, or very uh interesting or helpful. So just um yeah, realizing you can encourage. So many developers to use this technology or just by sharing your learnings and your unique perspective, just being brave, brave enough to do it. Yeah.

Languages, Models, And Accuracy

Julian 30:13

There's so many things you said. I'm like, oh my gosh, I love this. So you know what's funny? If you take away the context that you were writing a book, if you take that away and you're left with just the tips you gave, the mindset, the accountability partner in your co-author, Tom, um, the accountability that comes from the the uh publication company, having people look at your book or code. Um, you work on it every day, you have imposter syndrome about what it is that you do and what you know, you're afraid to share it out. This you may as well have been talking about building your own application, you know, or sharing your own code base, or you know, talking about your knowledge with code in general, let alone writing a book. And it's it's really important to me that and and really awesome kind of to hear that the same challenges that we have as just just developers as we write code and share it with our team or share it open source, put it out there on Stack Overflow in our communities. That's the same kind of feeling you have writing a book. Exactly. And it's no different to overcome. You just push through and do it and use the same techniques as really so anyone, yeah.

Emma 31:27

So any developer who thinks actually about writing a book, you don't need to be an or writer to write a book, uh, but you need to be really willing to dig deep into the topic and learning by doing and just brave enough to share it. And um especially I think with the book, that's the the most exciting thing that you can the impact that you can have because it's not the same as with a blog post or I don't know, um yeah, with just one um small smaller, I mean, content inside, but yeah the book itself I think is um is um probably more valuable in my opinion.

Julian 32:05

Um absolutely I mean you have the time and the space to really dig deep and flesh out the topic, right? So I guess the main thing that I really loved in that you said as well was that you have to be brave, right? And you have to have the courage to just go out there and do it. And it's um so did you have any moments as you wrote this book where you thought, oh my god, what am I doing? Did you ever doubt yourself as you were writing it? And what did you say to push through it?

Why Write A Book And Impact At Scale

Emma 32:34

Yeah, I I had, and I think we both had actually. Um, and um I think that's normal. I mean, the way I approach is like um, okay, I'm feeling this, but it's normal. It means that I care about doing it well. So otherwise uh I wouldn't push through if I didn't care. So because I care, I I stay motivated and I wanna like um reach my goal, or um I I want to to do it well. And you always have, I think, that feeling that oh, this is maybe not good enough. Uh or I don't know, especially if you're again, you're you're not you don't have to be the expert, right? So you might always have that feeling that it's oh it's not good, especially in AI. Imagine that now, oh, this is probably outdated already. But uh again, I think that's the under as you're underestimating probably what what you know, and then maybe there are some people who are catching up with this with this stuff that that that they can benefit from it. And again, you can always iterate and improve, and it's not about uh perfection, it's more about the progress. I think that's what keeps me uh focused on on doing it and uh the fact that I care about it deeply.

Julian 33:50

And um that's wicked. I'm I'm so impressed. This is really cool. I I I just love hearing this. This is inspiring to me because I'm I've always I've had this thing on my shelves there on my to-do list. You gotta write this book. And I just have not started. So you've you've inspired me to get started on this thing. Um, so this this is really cool. And I I love the tips. And I think what my hope is for for everyone listening, you know, whatever your project is, regardless of whether it's a book or a code base or uh starting in you know an application or applying for a job, whatever it is, you know, I really like that line you just said, Emma, which is you don't have to be the expert, right? You don't have to have perfectionism to do it. It's just like with a job that you're going for, you don't have to tick every box on the job description. Just understand it, have a passion for it, know that you can learn, that you can iterate and then build on it, right? And just be better tomorrow, be a little bit better every single day, learn a little more. So I I really hope this inspires people to kick off some projects, Emma, because this was this is super cool. And and it's a really cool book to check out. Um, so do you have any words of wisdom for people who might be thinking about open source contributing? You might be thinking about writing their own book, who you know, going down this path. Any tips for people?

Emma 35:16

Yeah, I would say start now and take action. Uh, don't wait for perfection. Yeah, don't wait for the perfect moment to come. It's I think if I waited, um this book wouldn't be there, or uh, I don't know, the the projects wouldn't be uh launched or things like that. I think it's it's about taking action. And if you have something in mind, um don't um be afraid to ask for help or seek that support. Um surround yourself with mentors, with uh people more experienced people uh than you, and then you will see that there are people willing to help or uh to give advice or want to collaborate. And we all in tech, I think, thrive uh in collaboration, yes. So uh I'm sure that um yeah, you you can make it happen, uh, and you're never alone. So it's just about um making uh up your mind uh that you are going to do this and then just pushing it through. And um yeah.

Staying Motivated And Iteration

Julian 36:21

I love it. That's super cool, very, very inspiring. Um I've got I can't wait to show this episode to a few people. Uh but the other thing we talked about recently, Bob and I, um, in our newsletter and stuff was the concept of systems versus goals, right? So have the goal to write the book, but put in the system of doing five minutes of writing every day at 8 p.m. Be hyper specific, build that system, build that habit, and then things will you know compound and you'll have it. So this is really cool. I'm I I love it. I I'm so inspired at 10 p.m. at night. So right before bed. I gotta calm down after this. So um Emma, yeah, I'm you know, I'm just gonna go write my book. I'll just go do it now, take care of it, get it done. Um, so Emma, one of the things we do on the podcast before we end, so I will get to you on where people can find you in just a minute, but we like to talk about books, which is perfect that you wrote a book. So you can't say that you're reading your own book, that would be cheating. But if you do if you do read or choose to read for fun, pleasure, for information, whatever, is there anything that you're reading at the moment?

Emma 37:38

Um, actually, I started reading a book, um an Apris book. Okay. It's called uh The Business Value of Uh Developer Relations. Um and it's about the key to building like uh tech communities and why it matters how to do it. And I was very curious because you know, I've been like doing it my own way, and I wanted to uh I think it's it's uh it's a book I've I've never actually uh come across a book like this before. So um and uh it's kind of a one-of-a-kind book. Uh that's why I I was I was curious to to see um, I mean, um to explore some theory maybe behind uh how these things work and actually what value it uh creates for businesses and why uh tech communities matter and uh what business value they can bring. And I think it touches uh on lots of things like uh building personal brand, building um uh communities and um yeah. So it's very interesting, I think.

Courage, Imposter Feelings, Progress

Julian 38:50

I just started reading it, so um I'll I'll I'll message you after this and uh find out what you think when you're a few chapters in. That sounds really good. I just googled it while you were talking. I just brought it up on my a new tab so I can look it up. Uh that sounds really interesting. I like it. Thank you for sharing that. Um what am I reading? Uh I have to share this every week. It's hard to share a new book every week because I don't read them that quickly. One one book I did pick up was called Plantopedia. Um, so there's I'm reading some business books and stuff, but I that's boring. Um Plantopedia because I am terrible at keeping indoor plants alive. I just I don't have that skill to garden and plant things indoors. So I bought this book that's going to help me with that. So we'll see how that goes. I'll I'll let you interesting.

Emma 39:43

Yeah, please share it with me.

Julian 39:45

I will, I'll send you the link. It's actually really it's a beautiful book. It's a nice big, it's like a coffee table book, hardcover. The pictures are beautiful. I was really impressed. So that's sitting on the breakfast table. I read a couple of pages with breakfast every morning. So uh I will I'll let you know. But it has taught me that. Oh, that's the name of the plant that I killed the other day. So it's at least taught me what plants I am not good at um planting and and nurturing. So that's pretty cool. Um, all right. So we'll wrap it up here. Uh Emma, it was such a pleasure to have you on the podcast. I'm so glad that we were your first podcast. Oh, very excited. Um, where can people find out about you? Um, I will have a link to the book. You already sent me that link, but where can people find out about you and and maybe help you with your community work and the stuff that you're doing locally? But you know, follow what you're up to.

Emma 40:38

Yeah, I'm most active on LinkedIn, so they can reach me on LinkedIn anytime. Um and email as well.

Julian 40:47

I'm not going to put your email into our show notes. It will be crawled by something and you'll be spammed. So we'll stick to LinkedIn. Uh we'll do that for now if that's all right. Um I don't I definitely don't want you to get spammed by people uh and by bots and stuff. Um anywhere else? Any websites, anything you want to share?

Emma 41:10

Um, LinkedIn is the best for me.

Julian 41:13

Okay, excellent. Good. Just checking. Um, okay, so that's awesome. The book, everyone. Actually, Emma, do you want to say the name of the book? I've said it every time.

Emma 41:23

Yeah, um, it's called Generative AA for web development, building web applications powered by uh OpenA APIs and Next.js.

Julian 41:31

You gotta say that 10 times very quickly. That's it. I can't wait to read it. It's a very long title.

Emma 41:38

It's a very long title, right?

Julian 41:41

But it's cool. I mean, you know exactly what you're getting. You know exactly what you're getting. Um, so look, uh Emma, absolute pleasure having you on the podcast. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. Um, everyone listening, please go and check out this book. It's um actually on the link that you sent me, Emma, and everyone don't quote me on this. It's on sale at the moment. So it's now's the time to buy this book. Get out there and get it. So Emma, thank you. Any final words before we go?

Advice For Makers And Authors

Emma 42:11

Um, just thank you so much for for having me. Um I am I'm uh I think uh I'm very I'm a fan of of this podcast already. That uh I'll be thank you. I'll be for following the uh upcoming um episodes as well. And uh you're doing a great job on like discussing this, uh having these discussions uh about mindset and the humans behind uh all the great stuff that we see and um that developers use. Yeah.

Julian 42:41

Thank you. I I really appreciate that because I I just really want people to feel motivated that they can also do stuff and it's not just for a specific subset of the population who are you know smart or something like that. Anyone can can contribute and make a difference. So I really do appreciate that. And the final point I have here that I do want to mention, Emma, is that a huge shout out to Faye Shaw from Boston was it Pie Ladies?

Emma 43:09

Pie Ladies.

Julian 43:10

Yes, please don't hate me for I always forget. Uh Boston Pie Ladies um organizer Faye Shaw actually recommended you jump on the podcast with me. So thanks for yeah, we love it. You you two met in person and did some cool stuff. So that's um absolutely cool to have a recommendation like that. And one personal shout out from me is a message for Glenn. After you listen to this episode, take some action and get coding. I want to see the app. So that's just a little personal note I'll throw in there. Everyone, thank you for tuning in. If you haven't yet, I don't know why you wouldn't, but like and subscribe wherever this you're watching or listening to this, give us a thumbs up, whatever it is. We appreciate you watching and listening every week. Emma Soran, thank you so much for joining me.

Emma 43:54

Thank you so much.

Julian 43:55

Beautiful. We'll see you next week. Cheers. Hey everyone, thanks for tuning into the Pie Bites Podcast. I really hope you enjoyed it. A quick message from me and Bob before you go to get the most out of your experience with Pie Bites, including learning more Python, engaging with other developers, learning about our guests, discussing these podcast episodes, and much, much more. Please join our community at pybytes.circle.so. The link is on the screen if you're watching this on YouTube, and it's in the show notes for everyone else. When you join, make sure you introduce yourself, engage with myself and Bob, and the many other developers in the community. It's one of the greatest things you can do to expand your knowledge and reach and network as a Python developer. We'll see you in the next episode, and we will see you in the community.