And it's really interesting nowadays that if you learn something like Python and you have a great idea, then you can go pretty far as a one man army and do some awesome things. And therefore, yeah, just learning Python and having this curious mindset already brings it a long way. Hello and welcome to the Pibytes podcast, where we talk about Python career and mindset. We're your hosts. I'm Julian Sequeira. And I am Bob Baldeboz. If you're looking to improve your python, your career, and learn the mindset for success, this is the podcast for you. Let's get started. Welcome back to the Pywytes podcast. I'm here with Julian. What's up? And Robin, special guest today. Robin Beer. How are you doing, man? Yeah, I'm doing great. How are you? Great, great. We are stoked to have you here. So for our audience, Robin is a longtime member of our Pivots community and one of the first clients we worked with in PDM. And today we're going to talk about his career, what he's doing with Python. And, yeah, probably you'll get some tips how you can take your python journey to the next level. You guys ready? Totally ready. Totally, totally ready. I'll quickly mention as well, Bob, you're in Spain. I'm here in Sydney. Robin, where are you? Yeah, I'm now in Germany, basically. So in the north of Germany. I love it. Well, Spain, Germany, pretty close. Much closer than Australia, anyway. All right. If you look on it from a european perspective, I think it's almost as far away as you could be in an average, basically. Of course, Eastern Europe and Spain would be the most extreme, I guess. Nice. Cool. So, Raman, if you want to introduce yourself a little bit, what you do day to day. Yeah, sure, for sure. So I would say I'm a human on earth, basically studied physics to understand this place a little bit better. And I always wanted to go in the direction of energy transition. Yeah, accelerate the way to a sustainable future. And was thinking what to study and came up with physics because it has the foundations to everything. And during my physics studies, I also learned about Python. And I really like the combination of the two of them, because on the one side you understand the world from the physicals perspective, and on the other side you learn a language where you can implement things and ideas and therefore basically come up with solutions and do some really great projects. And, yeah, therefore, I really like this tandem of python and physics. And I also did some battery research in France for some time during my masters. And finally basically went back to Aachen to finish my physics degree and then was able to join a startup and working in the startup on batteries to accelerate also this development to a sustainable future. Oh dude, that is cool. I mean, I was just going to say I got solar panels about a month ago, but that's nowhere near as cool and impressive as what you're doing. So that's, that's fantastic. So Robin, the thing I remember when you were in PDM, when you're in the developer mindset program with us, one of the cool things about your story was where you were and now how that shaped and where you are now. So for everyone out there listening, this is a really important message that I really want you to be able to tell here. So do you want to jump into that and just tell everyone a little bit about that journey? Yeah, sure. So I was in a working environment where I was not totally happy with. So yeah, basically some I did already Python programming, but I also didn't have the seniority level above me to learn from. So that was definitely part of me wanting to learn from more experienced Python developers. And that's why I actually searched for py bytes and found Python developer mindset where I was really happy with. And then on the other hand, there was also the question of, okay, how can I change the environment? Or how to jump into a new environment, is it the right step? And so on. And also, just reflecting on that question with Julian and Bob was really helpful in my journey. And yeah, I also, during that course, I was having the opportunity to jump into the startup and co founded, and therefore I was really happy that I took this jump and went into the cold water, because now I'm really enjoying the time that I have and the possibilities of creating and yeah, running also a cool team. So that's maybe a little bit from where I came from and where I went into. That's awesome. And just to clarify, the work that you were doing prior to the startup, how much coding were you doing there? I think I would say also really 80% or so. So I was already on the site where I was coding quite a bit and having an idea of what good code might look like, but I wasn't so sure about it. And yeah, I was also not having the time to reflect on it or so necessarily. So after pybids now, I would say that amount of coding was similar amount, but more with knowledge that the ideas or the ideals that I have for good code quality are now more solid. I know where the direction is and therefore also, the key coding itself becomes more pleasant and more high quality because colleagues say, hey, this is really good code, and it's reusable and so on. And so therefore, for me, this part didn't change so much. But on the other hand, what definitely did change was my confidence with my coding skills. And, yeah, just knowing what good code looks like, you have an example of that quality code, how you improve that as compared to the days as a coder in the physician world. Yeah. So I guess there it was more about getting just results, so analyzing data and getting the results. And it was not so much about object orienting and good software development, practice skills and so on. So I definitely already somehow hacked together my own package, but then also it came to documentation and so on, and it was a lot of question marks there, how to do it right, because maybe you get it working at some way, but then you ask yourself, how would you do it properly as a software developer? There definitely the PY bytes expertise kicked in and helped me a lot on bringing that to the next level. Now, in the startup, we are totally doing software development and of course, we also want to, we provide insights, but there's also much more need for clean software development, and that's definitely different than in the previous environment. That's cool. So I'm going to wind it back a little bit here and just, I want everyone to hear this part of your decision making process, because there are so many people who are listening that we talk with in the community and come across it wherever we talk with Python. And they are in positions where they might be dabbling in code or they don't even use code whatsoever, but they've, they've been experts in that field for a while where they currently sit, and they would love to make that jump into something like you've done into a startup or a coding role of anywhere. Right. When you had to make that decision, you know, how did you do that? What was running through your head? What, what thoughts did you have? And I guess, how did you come to build that confidence and jump into it? Yeah. So I think it came from this part of wanting to ask, like, python professionals, how, like to get feedback on your code, basically, and because you struggle already on your own and you have stack overflow and so on, and you learn already, but at some point the learning course gets steeper and steeper and it's tough to proceed. And there you can just cut the learning curve if you have some experts who are helping you. But not only that, because on the other hand, you get the system basically where you are pushed constantly to go out of your comfort zone. Pyrites are still doing this. I mean, I'm on this podcast, so still pushing for out of the console, going out of the comfort zone. I think this also really helps to just have the system in place where you are having weekly connections with other developers and go into coding and reflect on it and so on. Even in those weeks where you, maybe you yourself would have difficulties to motivate yourself. So that's definitely one part. And then the other part is also having a concrete project where you, in the beginning, think about what you want to achieve. And I was always wanting to go a little bit into web development just to understand it, send it again. This also similar to physical approach, that you just want to understand the fundamentals. And then once you have understood the fundamentals of how web development go, of course you are not directly a web developer, but you are having a different mindset on how these things work. And there it was really helpful that I was able to set up a small project where I use Django and now know what the fundamentals are and could dive into it more deep if I wanted to. And that's something I wouldn't have done without pibytes, I think, because I wouldn't have pushed myself so hard. It would have always been one of these things that you want to do at some point if you have enough time, but you never take the time. So this definitely helped to have the system. That's wicked. Now, this is the last thing I'm going to ask on this before I stop berating you on it. Robin, I apologize. So the thing that, to summarize what you're saying is by building that foundation, you're not, you know, you don't have to be the expert, you don't have to know everything about everything when it comes to the part of python that you want to go down. So it was just building that foundation to give yourself the confidence so you could dive in. Now, the question that I'm sure a lot of people hearing this going to have or should have, and a lot of people who have spoken to us have this question is, when you take that plunge, you can't know how it's going to turn out, right? There's always that fear factor of, I'm just going to jump in and go for it. So for you, how did that work out? So you've taken this risk, you've taken this gamble, you've jumped into something completely new and foreign, you've managed to land the role. Now, how's it all turned out? Yeah, really exciting. So I'm definitely in a place where I'm learning much more than before and constantly learning, pushing myself. And there was definitely that uncertainty also. I mean, as I was going in a startup environment, I think it's maybe even a bit more uncertainty than it would be in other developer roles that one might be able to take after PDM and. But that's also how to feel alive. So whenever you take such a jump, you're like really excited and also a bit nervous and so on, and that's really feeling alive and that's definitely something I would also appreciate. And so even if you're in this phase of having jumped but still falling and not sure where you will land on, it's definitely feeling excited. So definitely something to in itself is already something nice to achieve no matter what comes afterwards. I hope that answers the question somehow. Yeah, yeah, I love it, man. It's like an extreme sport, jumping out of a plane, perish, even if it's a once in a lifetime experience. No. Okay, maybe not so. Not so sustainable, but so cool. So, yeah, you made the jump. It's this exciting job now at the startup and. Yeah. Could you share a bit what you actually do with Python now? Yes, sure. So I came from this physics background using Python to just do big data analysis already, so also using some big compute power and so on. But now we're really leveraging the cloud, so we use tools like prefect coil, Aws, snowflake, all these kind of new fancy tools, I guess. And it's really interesting nowadays that if you learn something like Python and you have a great idea, then you can go pretty far as a one man army and do some awesome things. And therefore, yeah, just learning Python and having this curious mindset already brings it a long way. And of course we use that to get some insights for our client and that's really exciting. But you can also do that just for fun in your free time or so, or if you have an idea of what you want to do. Yeah, you can just learn all these things with Python and you can stay pretty long in this Python scope. And that's also something that I really, really like. So using basically the good practices that you learn and how to write good Python code, you can then do something like leveraging the cloud to, to do some great analysis or. Yeah, create a new product or something like that. And yeah, what we do on a day to day basis is we work as a team, we develop new features and we as any other developer team learn together and improve our skills together. That's cool. And did you find, because your experience prior to that, the learning curve, how did you find that? Did it hit you hard? Was it something that you struggled with? How did you get through it? Yeah, I think it's, I mean, it's constant resource scarcity, like how Elon Musk also puts it. You're constantly saying like, oh, we don't have enough people or so, and we, everybody needs to do a little bit, everything and so on, and that's very exciting. And also, yeah, you need to adapt and you need to accelerate and automatize things and so on. That's really nice. And you learn constantly with your colleagues. And also, I think another thing is that I'm always trying to make myself basically obsolete, so automatize my things that I do on an everyday basis. And I think that's also pretty pythonic. So you always want to try to make things more optimized, object oriented, optimized and so on. And yeah, that's definitely exciting because there are a lot of big challenges that we have and we have a lot of clients which we want to fulfill and so on. But yeah, I think also pie bites helped me partially also to be comfortable out of the comfort zone, kind of, if you can say so, make yourself obsolete. I love that. Yeah, if you'd like to make yourself obsolete, you're definitely, you will be happy in a startup environment. I think it's also really appreciated. Right. If you automate things, do proper documentation, I think that's, that's really important and we'll gain a lot of kudos. Yeah. And I think the best, like, it's like often, right, the best role or position is no position or the best. So if you don't even need, like, if you maybe have a problem now and then you solve it in a way that afterwards you don't need a person anymore to work on it, there will be always enough things to do in a startup environment, especially. So there will be always the point where you say, okay, nice, let's solve. Now there are ten other problems that you can solve. So you need to create a solution that has a lot of technical debt and is really hard to read, for example, in Python, so that you're not afraid to lose your job because nobody else will be able to read it. So that's like the other oversight. And here we're definitely trying to make things really well so that we can constantly focus on new topics and issues that's cool. Yeah, we felt like that last week. We automated our onboarding process, and when we did that, we were very happy for a moment, but then we realized, okay, now we have ten other problems to work on. Yeah. The next hurdle. Nice. Well, that's awesome. Robin, thanks so much for sharing the story with us. My takeaway from this that I really want, I really hope people get out of your story, is just that it's, again, it's never too late to make the plunge. You can go. I mean, you were doing a PhD right when you made that change. So it's just you go where you want to go at the end of the day and you make it work no matter what happens. So I'm really happy to hear that you found that success after making that life changing decision. I still remember the conversation at the time. You were so torn. It was good, but I'm really happy it worked out. Yeah, we never forget it. And I think it's also, don't be afraid, and also don't limit yourself by degrees or something like that, because in the end of the day, we are also always searching for new developers and so on. And what we really care about is a nice character, is that you got the skills that are required for the job, and it doesn't matter so much whether you have a PhD or master or no degree at all. The, what matters is like your way of approaching the problem and solving problems and working also as a, as a team and so on. And I think that's something you can always, no matter where you come from, you can start working on that. And also with now, I mean, the pandemic is not a nice thing for many reasons and so on. But on the other side, it's bringing us closer together in terms of being able to meet remotely, and therefore it also opens doors and you can work from pretty much anywhere as a developer, especially if you have a company that also likes asynchronous communication with GitLab, with Slack and so on. So in that sense, you can really work from many places, as I did also during my last months. Yeah. You're the embodiment or inspiration for the digital nomad. Yeah. Last time we spoke, you were at a hotel somewhere. Yeah, I guess it was in Cameroon. Yeah. Nice. Amazing. Yeah. And the other takeaway, really, to emphasize is to grow, you need to become uncomfortable, like, to get to the next level that's not going to be in your comfort zone. And I think you did that really well and you really pushed hard being proactive as well. And yeah, look at you now, right? The transformation. So that's really cool. So lastly then, where can people find you if they want to get in touch with you? Yeah, good question. So I guess on the one side, it's my website, so www. Dot Robin Dash beer dot de. I guess dash is minus, right always for German or european, it's not so clear. So Robin beer dot de. And the other thing is just on LinkedIn or Twitter. Yeah, you can reach out to me or I guess also if you're already listening PDM, maybe you can also just join PDM or, or ask Bob and Julian for my contact and maybe they were forwarded. We'll charge you for his details. Doesn't come free. Nice. Well, Robin, it's been a pleasure catching up again. Definitely don't be a stranger, but thanks so much for coming on the podcast. We really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks so much for inviting me. It's always a pleasure to be put in out of my comfort zone again by you guys. And yeah, really appreciating. Also continuing having a conversation with you. We hope you enjoyed this episode. To hear more from us, go to Pibyte Friends, that is Pibit es friends and receive a free gift just for being a friend of the show and to join our thriving slack community of Python programmers, go to Pibytes community, that's pibit es community. We hope to see you there and catch you in the next episode.